Aoifinn Devitt: This podcast was made possible by the kind support of Emmanuel Arbib of IAM Capital, a global alternative investment group based in London, as well as the individuals, Alissa Bayer and Avital Oyskeld. Sometimes our training in empathy, compassion, and what it takes to create an inclusive environment can come from unexpected and even tragic places. Let’s find out how and why it is sometimes so important to embrace and not quench your fear. I’m Aoifinn Devitt, and welcome to this 50 Faces Focus series, which showcases inspiring Israeli women in tech and beyond. I’m joined today by Galit Deshay, who is the owner of DG Diversity Growth Consulting and Strategic Social Change, organizations which work with companies to create an inclusive environment and diverse workforce. She previously worked as educational director at the Tel Aviv Sexual Assault Crisis Center and was executive director of Israel’s Women’s Network for over 3 years. She’s the director of the Power in Diversity initiative to diversify the high-tech industry in Israel and is also a lecturer. Welcome, Galit. Thanks for joining me today.
Galit: Thank you for having me.
Aoifinn Devitt: So you’ve been interested in issues of gender for most of your career, going right back to your PhD topic. Can you talk us through your academic and career journey and how you first became interested in these issues?
Galit: It’s a roller coaster, I think. I have a bachelor’s degree in political science, and I think I just told my students, actually, I opened a course this week called Gender in the MeToo Era, and I told my students how 20— I think it was almost 28 years ago, I’m not completely sure— a friend told me on our second year of studying you know, there’s an amazing class taught by Professor Joan Simons on feminist thought. Maybe we should take that. And I took the class. I think it was the most difficult class I ever took, and I was hooked. So I took every class I could find at the Hebrew University on gender and feminism and then did my master’s thesis on Palestinian feminist leadership, and then decided to write the PhD and was looking for a comparative study, you know, a something I can compare with my desire to write about gender and nationalism in the Palestinian Authority. And my advisor, Professor Galia Golan, suggested I check out Northern Ireland, and you know, it was love at first sight. And so I wrote my PhD on gender and nationalism in Northern Ireland and the Palestinian Authority on the period called the period of transition, transitioning from the armed struggle into trying, let’s say trying to construct a state or a political entity. And I managed to finish my— it’s field research and I was very lucky to finish it in the Palestinian Authority before the Second Intifada, because after the Intifada broke in 2000, it was impossible. And then we moved to Northern Ireland and lived for a year in Belfast, and I did my field research there. And it’s still, you know, my home away from home till today.
Aoifinn Devitt: And what stage were the Troubles at? Had they already ended at that time, or was it just emerging from that?
Galit: Well, we moved to Northern Ireland in 2001, and the Troubles formally ended in 1998, but it was still, you know, very fragile. I remember the first night we moved in, and the first night we stayed in our house, there were helicopters shining lights into the houses in the neighborhood. And when we went out the next day, we saw a soldier dressed in, you know, full body armor or whatever you call it, kind of kneeling and pointing a gun. And I remember my husband told me, wow, this takes me back to my years as a soldier in the Israeli army. So it was still very fragile and there were still events and killing events and murders and was still— but Northern Ireland was just getting, you know, going out of the trouble. And I remember going into downtown and a friend told me, you know, This is completely different. We have the shops open till late now. And I said, what do you mean late? And she said, well, 7 o’clock, which is, you know, was amazing. And we went back there with the kids actually 3 years ago, and Belfast was changed completely. It’s kind of, it’s a scene now. It’s fun. There are restaurants and heap, you know, places. And it’s amazing to see that what, you know, what peace can actually Whether— bring. I mean, whether you want to call it peace or not, whether you name it, it’s not actual peace, but it’s not an armed struggle.
Aoifinn Devitt: And I’d love to just move from there. Obviously, you had an early interest in gender, to move to your work at the sexual assault center. And in particular, I’d love to know what you learned from working with some of the most vulnerable members of society in that way, and how you maybe take those learnings into your current work on diversity?
Galit: Well, first I have to say that working at the sexual assault— Tel Aviv Sexual Assault Crisis Center is, you know, a life-changing event for me. It shaped my identity, shaped the way I am as a mother, a friend, a daughter, a spouse. I think there is the Galit before the Sexual Assault Crisis Center and after the Sexual Assault Crisis Center. And I think that the most important thing I realized is that there is no them and us, that, you know, that there’s sexual assault is— it’s something that constructs who we are as a society, as individuals. And that, you know, to meet people who manage to rise from this type of trauma is inspiring. And then at the same time, you know, you understand how difficult the struggle is and how long it’s going to be and how many backlashes we experience. And for me, this is still my life’s mission, even though I don’t work there anymore for so many years. It’s still the thing that moves me, the thing that gets me going, the thing that is, you know, kind of affects everything I do.
Aoifinn Devitt: Drawing the link is a lot easier than I think it might look, because from between the most vulnerable members of society who’ve been subject to awful violation, even to, you know, groups that are disenfranchised, maybe at work or in their careers. And because I think there is an element of the isolation there But equally, just drawing the link between them, I think, is easier than we think, that they’ve lost a voice. And you also, know, we are all suffering in some ways. So I think the empathy you draw perhaps from some of the original work, I’m sure it has made you much more compassionate, more empathetic in the roles you do now.
Galit: Definitely, definitely. And I think what the ability it developed is the ability to see people’s point of view and life experience, and to be able, you know, to pause for a minute, not transfer myself to their side, but being able to be compassionate enough and to feel empathy to their needs and their point of view, and understand that there are so many points of view and so many ways to experience something that for me is one thing and for someone else is another thing. And this is the most crucial thing, I think, when you work in diversity and inclusion— being able to understand that there are other points of view and other life experiences and infuse them into a process, whether when you screen someone or when you interview someone or when you or a manager or a colleague. And this is— I think this is one of the things that working for the Sexual Assault Crisis Center gave me.
Aoifinn Devitt: And you’ve also spent time with the Israeli Women’s Network, the executive director of Israel’s Women’s Network, for 3 years. Can you tell us a little bit about the mission of that network and what progress you’ve seen in recent years around getting more representation for women?
Galit: Well, the Israeli Women’s Network was established in 1984 by a group of Israeli Jewish, mostly American, I think some British women who wanted to import methods such as lobbying and promoting women’s rights and equality through legislation and, you know, kind of hardcore politics, trying to work within the system and criticize it at the same time. And for me, you know, I’m not a legislator, I’m not a lawyer, and for me, working, you know, pushing forward legislation was an amazing experience. We focused on women in the labor market, on equal pay, on sexual harassment legislation, on women’s rights and, you know, reproduction and maternity rights. And this is actually a very interesting question to you ask, know, after the year we’ve had, because women’s status in the past year regressed. You see the numbers, you see that women were the first one to lose their jobs and the last one to you be, know, rehired. Salaries went down, they took more chores at home. More violence, more domestic violence, more gender violence. The thing I think that we managed to change is that this is one of the main issues that we deal with and we speak about. But still, I’d like women to vote. Now we’re coming— Israel is 2 weeks before elections again. It’s becoming a habit, like a birthday or God knows what. Once a year. I’d like to see women voting for parties that promote their rights and take their needs into consideration. I’d like to see them vote for feminist women. I’m not sure this is happening yet, but it’s definitely something that here in Israel, where you usually used to vote on issues of security and, you know, left right, nationalism, and maybe, you know, economic issues, you start to see that people start to vote for parties that promote their rights. And this is exciting. There’s a long way to go, but this is very exciting for me.
Aoifinn Devitt: Oh, absolutely. And then you’re also involved in the Power in Diversity initiative. And one question, a basic question I’d like to ask, is does everyone believe there is power in diversity? Sometimes we take it for granted that there is, but Does everyone believe it? And can you tell us a little bit about that initiative?
Galit: Well, I’m the professional manager of Power Diversity and was with the initiative almost since it started 4 years ago. Power Diversity was established by Alan Feld. He’s the founder and managing partner of Vintage VC. It’s a fund of very large base Israeli-based VC, and he brought— he’s a very special man. He’s you know, one of the founders, heads of the industry, Israeli industry, and abroad as well. But he’s also involved for many, many years in social and philanthropic activities in Israel, very, very attentive to turning Israel into a fantastic society, what we dreamed of when it was established. Including equality and human rights and civil rights. So he brought along a group of 5 more, some of the prominent VCs in Israel— Pitango VC, Viola Ventures, Kumer Capital, Gilot Capital, ToBe, etc. And we have ordered over 40 VCs that signed the initiative and over 130 startups. And the point of power and diversity is to promote diversity and inclusion in the tech industry in Israel, and specifically in startups and growth companies from within the industry. Now, we don’t do sourcing, recruiting of diverse populations. We teach our companies how to become more inclusive in order to them to be able to become more diverse. And this is not an easy task. Because no one will tell you that they’re not for diversity. But when you are a founder of a startup and the first tip you get is choose your partners and start running with them, and choose the partners you are most familiar with so you won’t have to, you know, go through the obstacles of culture and identity and not understanding and feeling uncomfortable, then you bring your friends from university and your friends from the special army units and your friends from high school, and they all look the same and they all come from the same, you know, they all grew up in the same environment. And eventually you turn left, you turn right, and 2 years later you might find yourself with 100 employees or even 200 employees, and they all look the same. And then it gets much more difficult to recruit people who are not like you and might challenge the way you develop a product or conduct your inner cultural atmosphere. And you talk about cultural fit instead of cultural add. And so it’s extremely complicated to create a company that is focused on inclusion and diversity and is also very, very successful. And that’s our mission.
Aoifinn Devitt: That’s actually a beautiful segue into my next question, which was around the kind of training that you found effective when you work with companies to promote diversity. Is there anything that you find works better than other tactics to really create an environment of inclusion?
Galit: Well, I think two main things. The first one is not to skip the, what we call, analysis point. You know, let us study who you are, your pains, your strengths, where you are and where your people are on questions of fairness and inclusion and tolerance and a sense of belonging, a sense of being heard and being your voice heard. Let us analyze this and we’ll give you a full picture of who you are, what, who you, your company are, and then will get to work. So that’s one thing. And the second thing I learned is that the way to work is, you know, top down and bottom up at the same time. I like the phrase in Yiddish called kvetch. You kind of squeeze. It’s squeezing, you know, like taking a fruit and squeezing it. It’s called kvetch. And this is what we do, you know. You, you push from the top, you push from the bottom. And what it does is that you do get, you know, you get your management and your CEO, etc., to support the process. But eventually, the most important people are your mid-level managers and the people in your company. And then you need to get them on board, and you do that with ERG groups, and you do that with task forces, and you do that with getting them working within the process and constructing their needs. And eventually, one more thing I always say, you know, I say to the people I consult to and the companies, I always tell them, I’m, I’m like Mary Poppins. I stay till the wind changes. So it means I’m the facilitator. I’m just here to help you stand on your, you know, being able to walk on your own, and then the process is yours. And my role is to teach you how diversity and inclusion can work for you and why. So I guess it’s a long answer to a short question, but I guess those are the 3 main pillars I see as what works when you do an inclusion and diversity process.
Aoifinn Devitt: I love that. I do want to get back to some personal questions about your own career, but just one issue I want to ask you about which has come up a few times in my various podcasts, both with respect to people of color as well as women, is the concept of being colorblind has been, I think, now debunked and suggested that we can’t be colorblind. We have to be color brave, color aware, address these issues upfront, not treat them as taboo, and appreciate that people come from different backgrounds and have different perspectives as a result. Do you see us making the same mistake with gender that we try to ignore it, say we have gender blind organizations instead of addressing it and maybe being gender brave.
Galit: I even call it, you know, color happy because there’s so much happiness and joy and interest in having different people, different colors, different identities. This is so much more interesting, so much more appetizing. I don’t know. And in gender, there’s— what do you get out of ignoring someone’s gender identity. The message you give people is that they need to adapt to a certain structure, and eventually this structure is masculine if you check it. I remember once a CEO told me, you know, I instruct my teams to recruit on diversity basis. It’s very important that we have different people in the company. And before I managed to, you know, go yay, He said, but then when they come into the company, I tell them, now we have a culture and you need to adapt to this culture. And then he says something like, I had a VP marketing who gave birth, and 2 weeks after she gave birth, I called her and I said, listen, I’m sorry, but we need you. It’s impossible that you don’t answer the phone. And I said, oh my God, 2 weeks after giving birth, I don’t remember my name 2 weeks after I gave birth, you know. So this is— it’s really so politically correct to say that you love diversity and then ignore inclusion completely. And inclusion and belonging means that, you know, you need to cater for different types of identities and different type of needs and different types of lifestyles. What’s the point of ignoring it? All you get is the same type of people thinking the same way. So you miss out on so much.
Aoifinn Devitt: Very well said and beautiful words there. Now, just going back to your own career, you’ve already mentioned some people I know that were influential on you. Is there anyone in particular that maybe changed the way you looked at the world or was particularly helpful in moving your career along?
Galit: Wow, I have such a long list. You know, I owe my career to so many people. But my, you know, Professor Gali Golan, my PhD advisor, and Miriam Schler, the manager of— director of Sexual Assault Crisis Center, and the team I worked with who are my, you know, I love them to pieces till today. And Lina Baltal, who was my chairwoman at the— brought me into the Israel Women’s Network, and the team I had there, you know, each and every one of the women who I was their manager and they are amazing. And Alan, who brought me into Power and Diversity, and is it Dana Perig, who’s my, you know, head of the program I teach at Yale. So many people, but you know, I just thought I have this one person I thought I thanked this week actually on International Women’s Day, and she’s now the new chair, co-chair of Power and Diversity. Her name is Sivan Shamli-Dahan and she’s a partner at Kumul Capital, and we’re about the same age. I think she’s like 3 or 4 years younger than me, and she’s a fantastic partner, but she’s also— I see her as my teacher. She teaches me so much on this world of VCs and startups and investments, which I knew nothing about 4 years ago. So it’s amazing, and I’m very blessed to, you know, every step of the way I’m surrounded by so many people who are amazing teachers, whether I’m their, you know, formal teacher or they are mine. And this is— it’s a great gift, I guess.
Aoifinn Devitt: And when you look at these people and how they’ve influenced you, was there any one piece of advice that has already stayed with you, or any creed or motto that you live by?
Galit: This year in Israel, it was very, you know, there were lots of tips for International Women’s Day. Many companies did this, give a tip. Usually I don’t give tips, but you know how they tell you not to be afraid? You know, this ever came across this, don’t be afraid, leap in, jump in, whatever. So I actually want to tell people, and women especially, and this is what I tell my daughters as well, don’t be afraid of being afraid. I mean, fear is a great gift. You know, when it doesn’t evolve into anxiety, but it keeps us on the ground. You know, it’s eventually fear is what makes us brave because you overcome your fear or you live with it. And I did so many things in my life when I was afraid and I missed out on things because I was afraid. And this is, you know, acknowledging that is, I think, part of my identity. I’m not sure if this is a great tip to tell people be afraid.
Aoifinn Devitt: But Well, it does connect with what I’ve heard is that courage is not absence of fear. It’s recognition of fear.
Galit: On the contrary, exactly. The more afraid you are, the more brave, I guess, you are.
Aoifinn Devitt: Absolutely.
Galit: If you act.
Aoifinn Devitt: Yeah, no, I think that’s a beautiful empowering message. My last question is around any advice you might have for your younger self.
Galit: Have fun. Enjoy this period because it’s a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. So try to have as much fun as you can.
Aoifinn Devitt: Well, thank you, Gali. Your strength and your vision has really been very empowering for me, even just now on this podcast. And I thank you so much for sharing your insights with us.
Galit: Thank you.
Aoifinn Devitt: I’m Ifan David. Thank you for listening to our 50 Faces Focus Series. If you liked what you heard and would like to tune in to hear more inspiring Israeli women in tech and beyond, Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as investment advice, and all views are personal and should not be attributed to the organizations and affiliations of the host or any guest.
Aoifinn Devitt: This podcast was made possible by the kind support of Emmanuel Arbib of IAM Capital, a global alternative investment group based in London, as well as the individuals, Alissa Bayer and Avital Oyskeld. Sometimes our training in empathy, compassion, and what it takes to create an inclusive environment can come from unexpected and even tragic places. Let’s find out how and why it is sometimes so important to embrace and not quench your fear. I’m Aoifinn Devitt, and welcome to this 50 Faces Focus series, which showcases inspiring Israeli women in tech and beyond. I’m joined today by Galit Deshay, who is the owner of DG Diversity Growth Consulting and Strategic Social Change, organizations which work with companies to create an inclusive environment and diverse workforce. She previously worked as educational director at the Tel Aviv Sexual Assault Crisis Center and was executive director of Israel’s Women’s Network for over 3 years. She’s the director of the Power in Diversity initiative to diversify the high-tech industry in Israel and is also a lecturer. Welcome, Galit. Thanks for joining me today.
Galit: Thank you for having me.
Aoifinn Devitt: So you’ve been interested in issues of gender for most of your career, going right back to your PhD topic. Can you talk us through your academic and career journey and how you first became interested in these issues?
Galit: It’s a roller coaster, I think. I have a bachelor’s degree in political science, and I think I just told my students, actually, I opened a course this week called Gender in the MeToo Era, and I told my students how 20— I think it was almost 28 years ago, I’m not completely sure— a friend told me on our second year of studying you know, there’s an amazing class taught by Professor Joan Simons on feminist thought. Maybe we should take that. And I took the class. I think it was the most difficult class I ever took, and I was hooked. So I took every class I could find at the Hebrew University on gender and feminism and then did my master’s thesis on Palestinian feminist leadership, and then decided to write the PhD and was looking for a comparative study, you know, a something I can compare with my desire to write about gender and nationalism in the Palestinian Authority. And my advisor, Professor Galia Golan, suggested I check out Northern Ireland, and you know, it was love at first sight. And so I wrote my PhD on gender and nationalism in Northern Ireland and the Palestinian Authority on the period called the period of transition, transitioning from the armed struggle into trying, let’s say trying to construct a state or a political entity. And I managed to finish my— it’s field research and I was very lucky to finish it in the Palestinian Authority before the Second Intifada, because after the Intifada broke in 2000, it was impossible. And then we moved to Northern Ireland and lived for a year in Belfast, and I did my field research there. And it’s still, you know, my home away from home till today.
Aoifinn Devitt: And what stage were the Troubles at? Had they already ended at that time, or was it just emerging from that?
Galit: Well, we moved to Northern Ireland in 2001, and the Troubles formally ended in 1998, but it was still, you know, very fragile. I remember the first night we moved in, and the first night we stayed in our house, there were helicopters shining lights into the houses in the neighborhood. And when we went out the next day, we saw a soldier dressed in, you know, full body armor or whatever you call it, kind of kneeling and pointing a gun. And I remember my husband told me, wow, this takes me back to my years as a soldier in the Israeli army. So it was still very fragile and there were still events and killing events and murders and was still— but Northern Ireland was just getting, you know, going out of the trouble. And I remember going into downtown and a friend told me, you know, This is completely different. We have the shops open till late now. And I said, what do you mean late? And she said, well, 7 o’clock, which is, you know, was amazing. And we went back there with the kids actually 3 years ago, and Belfast was changed completely. It’s kind of, it’s a scene now. It’s fun. There are restaurants and heap, you know, places. And it’s amazing to see that what, you know, what peace can actually Whether— bring. I mean, whether you want to call it peace or not, whether you name it, it’s not actual peace, but it’s not an armed struggle.
Aoifinn Devitt: And I’d love to just move from there. Obviously, you had an early interest in gender, to move to your work at the sexual assault center. And in particular, I’d love to know what you learned from working with some of the most vulnerable members of society in that way, and how you maybe take those learnings into your current work on diversity?
Galit: Well, first I have to say that working at the sexual assault— Tel Aviv Sexual Assault Crisis Center is, you know, a life-changing event for me. It shaped my identity, shaped the way I am as a mother, a friend, a daughter, a spouse. I think there is the Galit before the Sexual Assault Crisis Center and after the Sexual Assault Crisis Center. And I think that the most important thing I realized is that there is no them and us, that, you know, that there’s sexual assault is— it’s something that constructs who we are as a society, as individuals. And that, you know, to meet people who manage to rise from this type of trauma is inspiring. And then at the same time, you know, you understand how difficult the struggle is and how long it’s going to be and how many backlashes we experience. And for me, this is still my life’s mission, even though I don’t work there anymore for so many years. It’s still the thing that moves me, the thing that gets me going, the thing that is, you know, kind of affects everything I do.
Aoifinn Devitt: Drawing the link is a lot easier than I think it might look, because from between the most vulnerable members of society who’ve been subject to awful violation, even to, you know, groups that are disenfranchised, maybe at work or in their careers. And because I think there is an element of the isolation there But equally, just drawing the link between them, I think, is easier than we think, that they’ve lost a voice. And you also, know, we are all suffering in some ways. So I think the empathy you draw perhaps from some of the original work, I’m sure it has made you much more compassionate, more empathetic in the roles you do now.
Galit: Definitely, definitely. And I think what the ability it developed is the ability to see people’s point of view and life experience, and to be able, you know, to pause for a minute, not transfer myself to their side, but being able to be compassionate enough and to feel empathy to their needs and their point of view, and understand that there are so many points of view and so many ways to experience something that for me is one thing and for someone else is another thing. And this is the most crucial thing, I think, when you work in diversity and inclusion— being able to understand that there are other points of view and other life experiences and infuse them into a process, whether when you screen someone or when you interview someone or when you or a manager or a colleague. And this is— I think this is one of the things that working for the Sexual Assault Crisis Center gave me.
Aoifinn Devitt: And you’ve also spent time with the Israeli Women’s Network, the executive director of Israel’s Women’s Network, for 3 years. Can you tell us a little bit about the mission of that network and what progress you’ve seen in recent years around getting more representation for women?
Galit: Well, the Israeli Women’s Network was established in 1984 by a group of Israeli Jewish, mostly American, I think some British women who wanted to import methods such as lobbying and promoting women’s rights and equality through legislation and, you know, kind of hardcore politics, trying to work within the system and criticize it at the same time. And for me, you know, I’m not a legislator, I’m not a lawyer, and for me, working, you know, pushing forward legislation was an amazing experience. We focused on women in the labor market, on equal pay, on sexual harassment legislation, on women’s rights and, you know, reproduction and maternity rights. And this is actually a very interesting question to you ask, know, after the year we’ve had, because women’s status in the past year regressed. You see the numbers, you see that women were the first one to lose their jobs and the last one to you be, know, rehired. Salaries went down, they took more chores at home. More violence, more domestic violence, more gender violence. The thing I think that we managed to change is that this is one of the main issues that we deal with and we speak about. But still, I’d like women to vote. Now we’re coming— Israel is 2 weeks before elections again. It’s becoming a habit, like a birthday or God knows what. Once a year. I’d like to see women voting for parties that promote their rights and take their needs into consideration. I’d like to see them vote for feminist women. I’m not sure this is happening yet, but it’s definitely something that here in Israel, where you usually used to vote on issues of security and, you know, left right, nationalism, and maybe, you know, economic issues, you start to see that people start to vote for parties that promote their rights. And this is exciting. There’s a long way to go, but this is very exciting for me.
Aoifinn Devitt: Oh, absolutely. And then you’re also involved in the Power in Diversity initiative. And one question, a basic question I’d like to ask, is does everyone believe there is power in diversity? Sometimes we take it for granted that there is, but Does everyone believe it? And can you tell us a little bit about that initiative?
Galit: Well, I’m the professional manager of Power Diversity and was with the initiative almost since it started 4 years ago. Power Diversity was established by Alan Feld. He’s the founder and managing partner of Vintage VC. It’s a fund of very large base Israeli-based VC, and he brought— he’s a very special man. He’s you know, one of the founders, heads of the industry, Israeli industry, and abroad as well. But he’s also involved for many, many years in social and philanthropic activities in Israel, very, very attentive to turning Israel into a fantastic society, what we dreamed of when it was established. Including equality and human rights and civil rights. So he brought along a group of 5 more, some of the prominent VCs in Israel— Pitango VC, Viola Ventures, Kumer Capital, Gilot Capital, ToBe, etc. And we have ordered over 40 VCs that signed the initiative and over 130 startups. And the point of power and diversity is to promote diversity and inclusion in the tech industry in Israel, and specifically in startups and growth companies from within the industry. Now, we don’t do sourcing, recruiting of diverse populations. We teach our companies how to become more inclusive in order to them to be able to become more diverse. And this is not an easy task. Because no one will tell you that they’re not for diversity. But when you are a founder of a startup and the first tip you get is choose your partners and start running with them, and choose the partners you are most familiar with so you won’t have to, you know, go through the obstacles of culture and identity and not understanding and feeling uncomfortable, then you bring your friends from university and your friends from the special army units and your friends from high school, and they all look the same and they all come from the same, you know, they all grew up in the same environment. And eventually you turn left, you turn right, and 2 years later you might find yourself with 100 employees or even 200 employees, and they all look the same. And then it gets much more difficult to recruit people who are not like you and might challenge the way you develop a product or conduct your inner cultural atmosphere. And you talk about cultural fit instead of cultural add. And so it’s extremely complicated to create a company that is focused on inclusion and diversity and is also very, very successful. And that’s our mission.
Aoifinn Devitt: That’s actually a beautiful segue into my next question, which was around the kind of training that you found effective when you work with companies to promote diversity. Is there anything that you find works better than other tactics to really create an environment of inclusion?
Galit: Well, I think two main things. The first one is not to skip the, what we call, analysis point. You know, let us study who you are, your pains, your strengths, where you are and where your people are on questions of fairness and inclusion and tolerance and a sense of belonging, a sense of being heard and being your voice heard. Let us analyze this and we’ll give you a full picture of who you are, what, who you, your company are, and then will get to work. So that’s one thing. And the second thing I learned is that the way to work is, you know, top down and bottom up at the same time. I like the phrase in Yiddish called kvetch. You kind of squeeze. It’s squeezing, you know, like taking a fruit and squeezing it. It’s called kvetch. And this is what we do, you know. You, you push from the top, you push from the bottom. And what it does is that you do get, you know, you get your management and your CEO, etc., to support the process. But eventually, the most important people are your mid-level managers and the people in your company. And then you need to get them on board, and you do that with ERG groups, and you do that with task forces, and you do that with getting them working within the process and constructing their needs. And eventually, one more thing I always say, you know, I say to the people I consult to and the companies, I always tell them, I’m, I’m like Mary Poppins. I stay till the wind changes. So it means I’m the facilitator. I’m just here to help you stand on your, you know, being able to walk on your own, and then the process is yours. And my role is to teach you how diversity and inclusion can work for you and why. So I guess it’s a long answer to a short question, but I guess those are the 3 main pillars I see as what works when you do an inclusion and diversity process.
Aoifinn Devitt: I love that. I do want to get back to some personal questions about your own career, but just one issue I want to ask you about which has come up a few times in my various podcasts, both with respect to people of color as well as women, is the concept of being colorblind has been, I think, now debunked and suggested that we can’t be colorblind. We have to be color brave, color aware, address these issues upfront, not treat them as taboo, and appreciate that people come from different backgrounds and have different perspectives as a result. Do you see us making the same mistake with gender that we try to ignore it, say we have gender blind organizations instead of addressing it and maybe being gender brave.
Galit: I even call it, you know, color happy because there’s so much happiness and joy and interest in having different people, different colors, different identities. This is so much more interesting, so much more appetizing. I don’t know. And in gender, there’s— what do you get out of ignoring someone’s gender identity. The message you give people is that they need to adapt to a certain structure, and eventually this structure is masculine if you check it. I remember once a CEO told me, you know, I instruct my teams to recruit on diversity basis. It’s very important that we have different people in the company. And before I managed to, you know, go yay, He said, but then when they come into the company, I tell them, now we have a culture and you need to adapt to this culture. And then he says something like, I had a VP marketing who gave birth, and 2 weeks after she gave birth, I called her and I said, listen, I’m sorry, but we need you. It’s impossible that you don’t answer the phone. And I said, oh my God, 2 weeks after giving birth, I don’t remember my name 2 weeks after I gave birth, you know. So this is— it’s really so politically correct to say that you love diversity and then ignore inclusion completely. And inclusion and belonging means that, you know, you need to cater for different types of identities and different type of needs and different types of lifestyles. What’s the point of ignoring it? All you get is the same type of people thinking the same way. So you miss out on so much.
Aoifinn Devitt: Very well said and beautiful words there. Now, just going back to your own career, you’ve already mentioned some people I know that were influential on you. Is there anyone in particular that maybe changed the way you looked at the world or was particularly helpful in moving your career along?
Galit: Wow, I have such a long list. You know, I owe my career to so many people. But my, you know, Professor Gali Golan, my PhD advisor, and Miriam Schler, the manager of— director of Sexual Assault Crisis Center, and the team I worked with who are my, you know, I love them to pieces till today. And Lina Baltal, who was my chairwoman at the— brought me into the Israel Women’s Network, and the team I had there, you know, each and every one of the women who I was their manager and they are amazing. And Alan, who brought me into Power and Diversity, and is it Dana Perig, who’s my, you know, head of the program I teach at Yale. So many people, but you know, I just thought I have this one person I thought I thanked this week actually on International Women’s Day, and she’s now the new chair, co-chair of Power and Diversity. Her name is Sivan Shamli-Dahan and she’s a partner at Kumul Capital, and we’re about the same age. I think she’s like 3 or 4 years younger than me, and she’s a fantastic partner, but she’s also— I see her as my teacher. She teaches me so much on this world of VCs and startups and investments, which I knew nothing about 4 years ago. So it’s amazing, and I’m very blessed to, you know, every step of the way I’m surrounded by so many people who are amazing teachers, whether I’m their, you know, formal teacher or they are mine. And this is— it’s a great gift, I guess.
Aoifinn Devitt: And when you look at these people and how they’ve influenced you, was there any one piece of advice that has already stayed with you, or any creed or motto that you live by?
Galit: This year in Israel, it was very, you know, there were lots of tips for International Women’s Day. Many companies did this, give a tip. Usually I don’t give tips, but you know how they tell you not to be afraid? You know, this ever came across this, don’t be afraid, leap in, jump in, whatever. So I actually want to tell people, and women especially, and this is what I tell my daughters as well, don’t be afraid of being afraid. I mean, fear is a great gift. You know, when it doesn’t evolve into anxiety, but it keeps us on the ground. You know, it’s eventually fear is what makes us brave because you overcome your fear or you live with it. And I did so many things in my life when I was afraid and I missed out on things because I was afraid. And this is, you know, acknowledging that is, I think, part of my identity. I’m not sure if this is a great tip to tell people be afraid.
Aoifinn Devitt: But Well, it does connect with what I’ve heard is that courage is not absence of fear. It’s recognition of fear.
Galit: On the contrary, exactly. The more afraid you are, the more brave, I guess, you are.
Aoifinn Devitt: Absolutely.
Galit: If you act.
Aoifinn Devitt: Yeah, no, I think that’s a beautiful empowering message. My last question is around any advice you might have for your younger self.
Galit: Have fun. Enjoy this period because it’s a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. So try to have as much fun as you can.
Aoifinn Devitt: Well, thank you, Gali. Your strength and your vision has really been very empowering for me, even just now on this podcast. And I thank you so much for sharing your insights with us.
Galit: Thank you.
Aoifinn Devitt: I’m Ifan David. Thank you for listening to our 50 Faces Focus Series. If you liked what you heard and would like to tune in to hear more inspiring Israeli women in tech and beyond, Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as investment advice, and all views are personal and should not be attributed to the organizations and affiliations of the host or any guest.
