Aoifinn Devitt: This podcast was made possible by the kind support of Emmanuel Arbib of IAM Capital, a global alternative investment group based in London, as well as the individuals, Alissa Bayer and Avital Oysgild. Our next guest moved from a career in speech and language pathology to one with a passion for copywriting. Let’s hear how she embraces a deliberate LinkedIn content strategy, suggests change in corporate behavior, and integrates her life as a busy working mother. I’m Aoifinn Devitt, and welcome to this 50 Faces Focus series, which showcases inspiring Israeli women in tech and beyond. I’m joined today by Michal Aizikovitz, who is the founder of CopyTribe, a copywriting university that offers multiple courses in different areas of copy and business management to copywriters, designers, and all creative professionals. She’s also the founder of Mikael Isaac Media, which is a micro agency serving select B2B SaaS and service providers with website copywriting and strategy. She’s currently living in Israel, but serving clients globally. She defines copywriting as about saying I do to the perfect marriage of research and storytelling. And Mikael has a dynamic social media presence where she frequently shares her tips, both as a founder and marketing strategist. Welcome, Michal. Thank you for joining me today.
Michal: Thanks for having me. Great to be here.
Aoifinn Devitt: Can you talk us through your career journey so far, and did it take any surprising turns along the way?
Michal: Absolutely. My career journey has been a very strange and bumpy one. I actually have a master’s in communication sciences, and I’m a licensed speech-language pathologist. So that was my schooling and training. And the funny thing that happened was that while I was earning my master’s degree in this field of speech-language pathology, as a side job, I interned as a marketing assistant in a publishing company, which I guess was my first quote-unquote mistake. Because once I started getting a taste of marketing and copywriting, I kind of got bitten by the bug. And even once I finished my master’s degree, and started working as a speech-language pathologist, I felt like I needed to get back to it. So what ended up happening was for a good 7 years, I worked 3, 4 days a week as a speech-language pathologist. And then the other days I would do freelance writing, freelance copywriting. I kind of kept my foot in that world because I enjoyed it so much and it really spoke to me. And then about 4 years ago, I decided to take a program called the Copywriter Accelerator. It’s a program for copywriters who are not brand new, but feel like they, they’re ready to launch a business. They want to get serious about their business, but they’re not sure how to go about it. It’s run by Rob Marsh and Kyra Hugg. It’s a fabulous program. I took this program over the summer. It was a 3-month program, and I was so inspired and energized by it that I said, you know what, I’m taking leave of my speech therapy job for a year. And I’m going to go all in and launch a copywriting business. So for the 7 prior years, I had been working with preschool-aged children with all kinds of speech and language developmental issues. And I had also been freelancing for different agencies, especially one particular New York agency and doing freelance copywriting. So I was kind of all over the place until then. I felt like I was mastering nothing because my focus was so diluted. After this copywriter program, I said, that’s it. I’m going all in for a year and let’s see where it goes. Let’s see where this experiment takes me. And here we are today. So after a year, I enjoyed it so much and my business grew so much during that first year that I just never looked back. And that has been my winding career journey.
Aoifinn Devitt: It’s so interesting. I always like to look back at people’s original disciplines and see how that influences what they do today. And as a speech language therapist, I presume you would’ve learned a lot about, well, obviously communication, but also really listening listening to a client’s needs or patient’s needs. And do you think that that has helped you in your copywriting business, your speech language therapist roots?
Michal: Absolutely. The communication piece is huge— communicating with clarity, precision. And like you said, learning to read between the lines and listen very carefully to parents, to children as they describe their challenges. That has helped me a lot in terms of the research stage of copywriting. So talking to customers, interviewing people, really kind of understanding the core problem before jumping in.
Aoifinn Devitt: You’ve built a global client base while currently working from Israel. How have you gone about that?
Michal: It’s interesting. I’m originally from New York, so that’s where my core network is professionally. So that fact has helped me a lot as I started out. But I think more than that is LinkedIn. I talk about it all the time. LinkedIn has really been the number one tool behind my business. Like the number— I would say the number one secret behind my business growth. And LinkedIn just allows you to have this platform and connect with amazing companies and people all over the world. So I do work with some clients in Israel, but mostly on the East Coast of the US. I’ve worked with several clients in the UK, in Europe, and other places in Europe. And most of my clients find me through LinkedIn or by now Google search, which is interesting.
Aoifinn Devitt: And I particularly loved reading some of your nuggets of wisdom that you put on LinkedIn. Just recently I’ve read tactics around protecting your time, respecting your client’s time, webinar etiquette, and some other etiquette with respect to copywriting. Are there any in particular that have resonated particularly well, even just among some of those recent nuggets?
Michal: Yeah, so it’s really interesting with LinkedIn. My content strategy on LinkedIn has kind of evolved, or maybe my content patterns have evolved over the years. So at the beginning, when I was really building my business on LinkedIn and trying to build my authority and solve problems in public, I focused mainly on copywriting and marketing content and stuck very, very closely to that. Didn’t veer from that much. Today, I still post a lot about copywriting and marketing, but now that I’ve grown and built quite an audience on LinkedIn, I also use the platform just to talk about general business ideas and change suggestions that I feel empowered to make. So, uh, an example of something that resonated recently was my advice to newer copywriters or anyone really is before asking a question or requesting advice from someone, you Google it first, right? So sometimes I get very thoughtful, intelligent, pointed questions from newer copywriters, and I’m so happy to take some time to answer them. But if someone hasn’t bothered to take those 2 minutes to understand what a term means or to understand like a basic concept first before approaching me, then I feel like I’m not serving as your personal Google. That was an idea that a lot of people resonated with. I also have been posting lately a lot about pricing. I have a pricing guide and I get tons and tons of pricing questions from both the copywriters I train and also copywriters in general on LinkedIn and in other Slack groups. I think pricing is the number one area where I get questions. And so I’ve been posting a lot of content around that. A recent one that resonated within pricing has been the idea that you never negotiate on price. You only negotiate on scope. So what many copywriters and other professionals do, they make the mistake of putting a price out there. And then the client is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, that’s too much. I need you to do it for $200 less or $1,000 less. And the copywriter’s like, Okay. Cause they really wanted that job and there goes their credibility, right? So now they have become totally incredible and the client will never really trust a quote from them again. And the whole power dynamic in that relationship has shifted in a very negative way. So my advice to creative professionals is you negotiate on scope. So if the client says to you, listen, that’s not in my budget. I need $1,000 less. I need $500 less. You say, sure. How about we do only one round of revisions, or how about we reduce scope to 3 pages instead of 4 pages? And that way it’s a win-win and you don’t lose your credibility. So that’s been some recent stuff that’s gotten a lot of traction on LinkedIn.
Aoifinn Devitt: And I also love something you said about your clients don’t choose you because of price, they choose you because of ROI. Can you tell us a little bit about that one?
Michal: Yeah, if you’re going to compete on pricing, in any industry, it’s really a race to the bottom. So if you want to be working with higher-end clients and better clients, you need to be able to demonstrate that you not only solve their problem, but they are investing in you to the point where it becomes a no-brainer. Any money they put into you, into your work, they will get back tenfold. So the more you can demonstrate that as quickly and clearly as possible through testimonials and case studies, the easier it will be to charge premium prices and not encounter that hesitation in a sales process.
Aoifinn Devitt: And I love how you’ve been talking about LinkedIn as being— well, you became empowered, maybe empowered to use LinkedIn, but also was LinkedIn a source of maybe some of that power? Can you talk about your experience as a female founder and how social media has helped maybe to grow your reach and presence?
Michal: Yeah, absolutely. As a female founder, I think It has given me a platform that I would not have had otherwise. I work from a home office. I have a large family. I don’t get out to conferences or networking events as often when they did exist, as often as another founder might. I’m not hanging out in Tel Aviv 12 hours a day and hobnobbing with other people in the industry, but LinkedIn has allowed me in a very practical, feasible way to get out there and connect with these people. So I think that that it’s a uniquely valuable tool for people who are not able to network in person as much. I think one of the biggest challenges as a female business owner has been the pressure to hide one’s personal life from clients or the world for fear that they will question your ability to deliver or your expertise as a professional. And I know this is a major issue across women of all industries, that there’s this feeling of like, if I talk about my family, if I talk about my kids, I won’t be taken seriously. What’s so maddening about it is that when men do the same exact thing, it’s taken as so human and endearing and kind of cute and sweet. So there’s a major double standard there that has to really be dealt with.
Aoifinn Devitt: I think it’s an excellent point. I would call that one of the kind of unwritten rules in business. In theory, we’re supposed to be all authentic and bringing our whole selves to work, et cetera. But there’s definitely an unwritten rule that when you start to talk about your family or even just, I think even anything in your personal life, that that is opening you up to perhaps bias on the other side. And I agree with that. And I don’t think that that pressure is abating. I would actually suggest that with the pandemic and the stresses, it’s probably even rising.
Michal: Yeah, although I think that the pandemic has created a reality where home and work are a little bit more meshed than they were just by, by force. So I’m wondering if that might work to our advantage long-term, where it seemed like you can work from home effectively, productively, that’s okay. So that part I’m really excited about, the whole work from home reality. I’ve actually— I’m trying to do my part to Amend this double standard. And I had a conversation with several women in a Slack group I’m part of shortly after I had my baby. Someone said to me, I had a baby about 5 months ago, and someone said, are you going to announce it on LinkedIn? I said, I don’t know, like I’m kind of struggling with it. And a few of the women said, yeah, I would never announce it on LinkedIn. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable, even though I see men doing it all the time. And we had this conversation about it. And finally I said, you know what, we have to have a core, a critical mass of powerful women who are able to get out there and say, yes, I had a baby. And yes, I have a family. And yes, I have a successful, outstanding business that does amazing work. And it’s not a contradiction. So the change really can start with us. And that’s when I went out and I did post about my baby and I got amazing feedback on it. I’ve only gotten good results from it. And I think that if each of us gets out there and unabashedly, unapologetically, once in a while, makes people aware that yes, we have families, yes, we have personal lives, and that’s okay, and we’re still outstanding at what we do and we can still manage it all, I think we’ll be helping to fix that double standard.
Aoifinn Devitt: Yeah, it was actually another Israeli woman that I saw with her first— my first baby post on LinkedIn, and it said, I’ve been promoted to mom. And she again also had an overwhelming response. And we’ve actually had a newborn baby, 2 weeks old, on this podcast making a guest appearance. So I think you’re absolutely right. It is time to normalize that. Let’s talk about work and family, because obviously you mentioned you do balance your work with your family life. What have you found has worked particularly well for you?
Michal: Work-life balance is really, really, really hard. I think the first thing that I, continued to work on and that has helped me so far is acceptance. Acceptance that you cannot do it all, right? Superwoman is a myth, and anyone who tells you otherwise is just point-blank lying. So the acceptance of, I cannot do it all, so what am I gonna do and what am I not gonna do, right? So the famous list— I’m forgetting the exact terms right now— but you can either delete things from your life or you can delegate them. So you have to look at the different elements of your life and say, what can I just say goodbye to and not make it a priority? For me at this stage of my life personally, home improvement projects are just not a priority. Certain aspects of like my kids’ bedrooms, clothing, or elaborate dinners, not a priority. Like that has been a conscious choice for me. And that’s the only thing that works like really looking at the elements of your life and choosing what’s really important, what you’re just going to chuck, and what can be outsourced successfully. And I always tell women entrepreneurs, the easiest thing to outsource are household tasks. So like cleaning, laundry, errands, cooking, food prep, all that is much easier to outsource than even hiring someone to help you in your business, right? Anyone on your team is going to need extensive training and a lot more management. Than someone who’s trained in those household tasks. So start with that. Start by outsourcing the easy stuff. And then once you’ve maxed out the outsourcing on that, and that’s when you start bringing on people into your team and scaling if you want to. The bottom line is that when you have a family and when you have a busy personal life, you have to be a mama bear when it comes to your time. You have to really fiercely protect your time. That means not jumping on calls. That means thinking carefully before accepting an opportunity, a meeting invite, a speaking engagement. And it also means very much being on the same page as your partner or spouse. So this is key. And I think that if you and your spouse are not aligned when it comes to your career and household tasks and childcare division of labor, when it comes to that, then there’s going to be a constant tension running through everything you do that’s going to undermine your productivity and success. So have those discussions, even if they’re high tension, or even if they take time to really flesh out, it’s worth getting clarity on that and being really happy on both ends with the arrangement, because the two of you are really partners. And if you’re not working together, it’s going to be hard to make progress.
Aoifinn Devitt: Those are some really excellent actionable pieces of advice there. So thank you for that. And just related to that, so you intersect very closely with many aspects of the tech world. What’s your— are your impressions of the experience of women in tech in general and in Israel in particular?
Michal: It’s interesting. In general, in Israel, I’ve seen women do really well. And I think that in some senses, there is more equality here, more gender equality here in Israel, where the country was really built by men and women working side by side, right, on the kibbutzim in the 1930s and the 1940s. You really had that equality of labor in building this country and changing swamps and deserts into cities. And if you think about it, someone like Golda Meir, one of Israel’s first prime ministers, she was one of the first female world leaders ever. So I think Israel in many ways is very progressive when it comes to their women. At the same time, in tech, there still is a very, very clear lack of diversity. And I have mixed feelings about this. I actually have a very close friend who is very high up in the tech world and one of the major tech brands in Tel Aviv. And she describes how at the entry level, it’s 50/50 men and women, and literally every stage after the percentage of women goes down to the point where it’s like at her stage it’s like 8% women and the rest men or something like that. And we were talking about why this is, and I think it can sometimes be hard to separate where there might be bias at play and where there’s just the choice. There’s a choice of being a mother, being more involved, working more part-time, not having such a responsible role. And that’s valid too. So for me, it’s hard to separate those threads. Like, if there isn’t complete equality when it comes to childcare, I cannot see how a woman could progress in her career the same level as her male counterpart unless she’s truly exceptional and just a superwoman to some extent. And then there are the women who, you know, then there’s the stages of childcare specifically like infanthood, right? That can easily be even given to a partner. In that first year of life, right? Especially if a woman needs, wants, chooses to breastfeed. So I guess my point is that there’s definitely a lack of diversity. I think it’s caused by a combination of factors, some of which we may not want to change because it’s the woman’s choice.
Aoifinn Devitt: And I think part of it is also role models. When we see more and more women in leadership and more role models, we start to visualize maybe a path to that direction. So It can be kind of self-reinforcing. The fewer women at those higher levels, the fewer women aspire to being in those higher levels because they just don’t see themselves in those roles. But one of the things I do think is key are, are certainly the support of our peers. And I know you’ve actually been quoted by one of our other guests as being tremendously supportive to her when she moved to Israel and started her business. Who are some of the key people who’ve influenced you in your career and your life so far?
Michal: I would definitely say Rob Marsh and Kira Hugg, who I mentioned earlier, the founders of the Copywriter Accelerator, the ones who inspired me to launch my own business. They taught me that being a mentor means being wise and also being very humble. So like, they kind of opened my eyes to this new mentor persona who, who knows a lot, but doesn’t claim to know it all and is very warm and approachable. It’s very clear to me. And I’ve met different coaches and consultants since then, but it’s very clear to me that that is the kind of mentor who works best for me. They also have a very people-first, relationship-first approach. So like, instead of thinking about short-term sales, short-term conversions, they really invest in relationships. And that has taught me a lot. I think one of the most unexpected gifts of this whole business journey has been the relationships I’ve made along the way. So like, even if my money goals were to completely flop, I feel that the relationships I’ve made have enriched my life so much. We really overlook that in this whole business world, the value of the connections we can make with colleagues and the value of building that strong network, not just for the financial gain, which there is to that too, but just for life enrichment gain.
Aoifinn Devitt: I completely agree. People who energize me, I think, leave a mark that goes far beyond any financial gain that, that could have come from that. Connected to that, is there any one piece of advice that you’ve received over the years or any creed or motto that you live by?
Michal: Yeah, so this is similar to what I spoke about before in terms of being protective of your time. I always tell myself, when you say yes to something, you are saying no to something else. So time is finite. Headspace is finite, energy is finite, and you need to keep that in mind when you say, yes, sure, I can do it, no problem. I am a sucker for opportunity. I love life. I love people. I love challenges. I love new things, but that’s not sustainable. You can’t accept every opportunity. You need to be selective and you need to choose intentionally and thoughtfully what you’re saying yes to.
Aoifinn Devitt: And if you were to give advice to your younger self, Is there anything that you know now that you wish you had known maybe in your early 20s?
Michal: Absolutely. This connects to what we actually started with at the beginning of the conversation, my very winding career path. What I would tell my younger self is figure out what you’re really good at, what speaks to you, what makes you excited to wake up in the morning, the kind of work where like after 3 hours you’re like, oh my God, 3 hours Right? Passed. That, that’s your passion, your skill. Take that and figure out how to make money with it, monetize it. That’s what I would have told my younger self before spending $30,000 on a master’s degree. So I actually have a funny story related to that. At my graduation, my master’s graduation, I spoke. And what I did besides a regular speech at the graduation, I had this inspiration a week or two before the event where we had built a real camaraderie, the 25 students in the class, and I decided that I was going to write a poem where there would be 2 stanzas dedicated to each member of the class, just as a beautiful wrap-up event saying goodbye to each other. And that was part of my speech, and it was a really well-done poem. And I laugh about it now because looking back Even then, when I was actually getting my master’s in speech-language pathology, I was still drawn to writing. And you see it so clearly that, like, if you’re drawn to something, don’t fight it. Go all in and figure out how to make a living from it.
Aoifinn Devitt: It was clearly meant to be. Well, thank you, Mikael. It’s been a real pleasure speaking with you today. You are such a force in the— not only the world of copywriting, but also on LinkedIn. You’ve been such a great source of advice and a great source of advice also on the issue of balancing work and family. And thank you for the very actionable and concrete pieces of advice you’ve given us here. Thank you for sharing your insights with us.
Michal: Thanks for having me. This was fun.
Aoifinn Devitt: I’m Aoifinn Devitt. Thank you for listening to our 50 Faces Focus Series. If you liked what you heard and would like to tune in to hear more inspiring Israeli women in tech and beyond, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as investment advice, and all views are personal and should not be attributed to the organizations and affiliations of the host or any guest.
Aoifinn Devitt: This podcast was made possible by the kind support of Emmanuel Arbib of IAM Capital, a global alternative investment group based in London, as well as the individuals, Alissa Bayer and Avital Oysgild. Our next guest moved from a career in speech and language pathology to one with a passion for copywriting. Let’s hear how she embraces a deliberate LinkedIn content strategy, suggests change in corporate behavior, and integrates her life as a busy working mother. I’m Aoifinn Devitt, and welcome to this 50 Faces Focus series, which showcases inspiring Israeli women in tech and beyond. I’m joined today by Michal Aizikovitz, who is the founder of CopyTribe, a copywriting university that offers multiple courses in different areas of copy and business management to copywriters, designers, and all creative professionals. She’s also the founder of Mikael Isaac Media, which is a micro agency serving select B2B SaaS and service providers with website copywriting and strategy. She’s currently living in Israel, but serving clients globally. She defines copywriting as about saying I do to the perfect marriage of research and storytelling. And Mikael has a dynamic social media presence where she frequently shares her tips, both as a founder and marketing strategist. Welcome, Michal. Thank you for joining me today.
Michal: Thanks for having me. Great to be here.
Aoifinn Devitt: Can you talk us through your career journey so far, and did it take any surprising turns along the way?
Michal: Absolutely. My career journey has been a very strange and bumpy one. I actually have a master’s in communication sciences, and I’m a licensed speech-language pathologist. So that was my schooling and training. And the funny thing that happened was that while I was earning my master’s degree in this field of speech-language pathology, as a side job, I interned as a marketing assistant in a publishing company, which I guess was my first quote-unquote mistake. Because once I started getting a taste of marketing and copywriting, I kind of got bitten by the bug. And even once I finished my master’s degree, and started working as a speech-language pathologist, I felt like I needed to get back to it. So what ended up happening was for a good 7 years, I worked 3, 4 days a week as a speech-language pathologist. And then the other days I would do freelance writing, freelance copywriting. I kind of kept my foot in that world because I enjoyed it so much and it really spoke to me. And then about 4 years ago, I decided to take a program called the Copywriter Accelerator. It’s a program for copywriters who are not brand new, but feel like they, they’re ready to launch a business. They want to get serious about their business, but they’re not sure how to go about it. It’s run by Rob Marsh and Kyra Hugg. It’s a fabulous program. I took this program over the summer. It was a 3-month program, and I was so inspired and energized by it that I said, you know what, I’m taking leave of my speech therapy job for a year. And I’m going to go all in and launch a copywriting business. So for the 7 prior years, I had been working with preschool-aged children with all kinds of speech and language developmental issues. And I had also been freelancing for different agencies, especially one particular New York agency and doing freelance copywriting. So I was kind of all over the place until then. I felt like I was mastering nothing because my focus was so diluted. After this copywriter program, I said, that’s it. I’m going all in for a year and let’s see where it goes. Let’s see where this experiment takes me. And here we are today. So after a year, I enjoyed it so much and my business grew so much during that first year that I just never looked back. And that has been my winding career journey.
Aoifinn Devitt: It’s so interesting. I always like to look back at people’s original disciplines and see how that influences what they do today. And as a speech language therapist, I presume you would’ve learned a lot about, well, obviously communication, but also really listening listening to a client’s needs or patient’s needs. And do you think that that has helped you in your copywriting business, your speech language therapist roots?
Michal: Absolutely. The communication piece is huge— communicating with clarity, precision. And like you said, learning to read between the lines and listen very carefully to parents, to children as they describe their challenges. That has helped me a lot in terms of the research stage of copywriting. So talking to customers, interviewing people, really kind of understanding the core problem before jumping in.
Aoifinn Devitt: You’ve built a global client base while currently working from Israel. How have you gone about that?
Michal: It’s interesting. I’m originally from New York, so that’s where my core network is professionally. So that fact has helped me a lot as I started out. But I think more than that is LinkedIn. I talk about it all the time. LinkedIn has really been the number one tool behind my business. Like the number— I would say the number one secret behind my business growth. And LinkedIn just allows you to have this platform and connect with amazing companies and people all over the world. So I do work with some clients in Israel, but mostly on the East Coast of the US. I’ve worked with several clients in the UK, in Europe, and other places in Europe. And most of my clients find me through LinkedIn or by now Google search, which is interesting.
Aoifinn Devitt: And I particularly loved reading some of your nuggets of wisdom that you put on LinkedIn. Just recently I’ve read tactics around protecting your time, respecting your client’s time, webinar etiquette, and some other etiquette with respect to copywriting. Are there any in particular that have resonated particularly well, even just among some of those recent nuggets?
Michal: Yeah, so it’s really interesting with LinkedIn. My content strategy on LinkedIn has kind of evolved, or maybe my content patterns have evolved over the years. So at the beginning, when I was really building my business on LinkedIn and trying to build my authority and solve problems in public, I focused mainly on copywriting and marketing content and stuck very, very closely to that. Didn’t veer from that much. Today, I still post a lot about copywriting and marketing, but now that I’ve grown and built quite an audience on LinkedIn, I also use the platform just to talk about general business ideas and change suggestions that I feel empowered to make. So, uh, an example of something that resonated recently was my advice to newer copywriters or anyone really is before asking a question or requesting advice from someone, you Google it first, right? So sometimes I get very thoughtful, intelligent, pointed questions from newer copywriters, and I’m so happy to take some time to answer them. But if someone hasn’t bothered to take those 2 minutes to understand what a term means or to understand like a basic concept first before approaching me, then I feel like I’m not serving as your personal Google. That was an idea that a lot of people resonated with. I also have been posting lately a lot about pricing. I have a pricing guide and I get tons and tons of pricing questions from both the copywriters I train and also copywriters in general on LinkedIn and in other Slack groups. I think pricing is the number one area where I get questions. And so I’ve been posting a lot of content around that. A recent one that resonated within pricing has been the idea that you never negotiate on price. You only negotiate on scope. So what many copywriters and other professionals do, they make the mistake of putting a price out there. And then the client is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, that’s too much. I need you to do it for $200 less or $1,000 less. And the copywriter’s like, Okay. Cause they really wanted that job and there goes their credibility, right? So now they have become totally incredible and the client will never really trust a quote from them again. And the whole power dynamic in that relationship has shifted in a very negative way. So my advice to creative professionals is you negotiate on scope. So if the client says to you, listen, that’s not in my budget. I need $1,000 less. I need $500 less. You say, sure. How about we do only one round of revisions, or how about we reduce scope to 3 pages instead of 4 pages? And that way it’s a win-win and you don’t lose your credibility. So that’s been some recent stuff that’s gotten a lot of traction on LinkedIn.
Aoifinn Devitt: And I also love something you said about your clients don’t choose you because of price, they choose you because of ROI. Can you tell us a little bit about that one?
Michal: Yeah, if you’re going to compete on pricing, in any industry, it’s really a race to the bottom. So if you want to be working with higher-end clients and better clients, you need to be able to demonstrate that you not only solve their problem, but they are investing in you to the point where it becomes a no-brainer. Any money they put into you, into your work, they will get back tenfold. So the more you can demonstrate that as quickly and clearly as possible through testimonials and case studies, the easier it will be to charge premium prices and not encounter that hesitation in a sales process.
Aoifinn Devitt: And I love how you’ve been talking about LinkedIn as being— well, you became empowered, maybe empowered to use LinkedIn, but also was LinkedIn a source of maybe some of that power? Can you talk about your experience as a female founder and how social media has helped maybe to grow your reach and presence?
Michal: Yeah, absolutely. As a female founder, I think It has given me a platform that I would not have had otherwise. I work from a home office. I have a large family. I don’t get out to conferences or networking events as often when they did exist, as often as another founder might. I’m not hanging out in Tel Aviv 12 hours a day and hobnobbing with other people in the industry, but LinkedIn has allowed me in a very practical, feasible way to get out there and connect with these people. So I think that that it’s a uniquely valuable tool for people who are not able to network in person as much. I think one of the biggest challenges as a female business owner has been the pressure to hide one’s personal life from clients or the world for fear that they will question your ability to deliver or your expertise as a professional. And I know this is a major issue across women of all industries, that there’s this feeling of like, if I talk about my family, if I talk about my kids, I won’t be taken seriously. What’s so maddening about it is that when men do the same exact thing, it’s taken as so human and endearing and kind of cute and sweet. So there’s a major double standard there that has to really be dealt with.
Aoifinn Devitt: I think it’s an excellent point. I would call that one of the kind of unwritten rules in business. In theory, we’re supposed to be all authentic and bringing our whole selves to work, et cetera. But there’s definitely an unwritten rule that when you start to talk about your family or even just, I think even anything in your personal life, that that is opening you up to perhaps bias on the other side. And I agree with that. And I don’t think that that pressure is abating. I would actually suggest that with the pandemic and the stresses, it’s probably even rising.
Michal: Yeah, although I think that the pandemic has created a reality where home and work are a little bit more meshed than they were just by, by force. So I’m wondering if that might work to our advantage long-term, where it seemed like you can work from home effectively, productively, that’s okay. So that part I’m really excited about, the whole work from home reality. I’ve actually— I’m trying to do my part to Amend this double standard. And I had a conversation with several women in a Slack group I’m part of shortly after I had my baby. Someone said to me, I had a baby about 5 months ago, and someone said, are you going to announce it on LinkedIn? I said, I don’t know, like I’m kind of struggling with it. And a few of the women said, yeah, I would never announce it on LinkedIn. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable, even though I see men doing it all the time. And we had this conversation about it. And finally I said, you know what, we have to have a core, a critical mass of powerful women who are able to get out there and say, yes, I had a baby. And yes, I have a family. And yes, I have a successful, outstanding business that does amazing work. And it’s not a contradiction. So the change really can start with us. And that’s when I went out and I did post about my baby and I got amazing feedback on it. I’ve only gotten good results from it. And I think that if each of us gets out there and unabashedly, unapologetically, once in a while, makes people aware that yes, we have families, yes, we have personal lives, and that’s okay, and we’re still outstanding at what we do and we can still manage it all, I think we’ll be helping to fix that double standard.
Aoifinn Devitt: Yeah, it was actually another Israeli woman that I saw with her first— my first baby post on LinkedIn, and it said, I’ve been promoted to mom. And she again also had an overwhelming response. And we’ve actually had a newborn baby, 2 weeks old, on this podcast making a guest appearance. So I think you’re absolutely right. It is time to normalize that. Let’s talk about work and family, because obviously you mentioned you do balance your work with your family life. What have you found has worked particularly well for you?
Michal: Work-life balance is really, really, really hard. I think the first thing that I, continued to work on and that has helped me so far is acceptance. Acceptance that you cannot do it all, right? Superwoman is a myth, and anyone who tells you otherwise is just point-blank lying. So the acceptance of, I cannot do it all, so what am I gonna do and what am I not gonna do, right? So the famous list— I’m forgetting the exact terms right now— but you can either delete things from your life or you can delegate them. So you have to look at the different elements of your life and say, what can I just say goodbye to and not make it a priority? For me at this stage of my life personally, home improvement projects are just not a priority. Certain aspects of like my kids’ bedrooms, clothing, or elaborate dinners, not a priority. Like that has been a conscious choice for me. And that’s the only thing that works like really looking at the elements of your life and choosing what’s really important, what you’re just going to chuck, and what can be outsourced successfully. And I always tell women entrepreneurs, the easiest thing to outsource are household tasks. So like cleaning, laundry, errands, cooking, food prep, all that is much easier to outsource than even hiring someone to help you in your business, right? Anyone on your team is going to need extensive training and a lot more management. Than someone who’s trained in those household tasks. So start with that. Start by outsourcing the easy stuff. And then once you’ve maxed out the outsourcing on that, and that’s when you start bringing on people into your team and scaling if you want to. The bottom line is that when you have a family and when you have a busy personal life, you have to be a mama bear when it comes to your time. You have to really fiercely protect your time. That means not jumping on calls. That means thinking carefully before accepting an opportunity, a meeting invite, a speaking engagement. And it also means very much being on the same page as your partner or spouse. So this is key. And I think that if you and your spouse are not aligned when it comes to your career and household tasks and childcare division of labor, when it comes to that, then there’s going to be a constant tension running through everything you do that’s going to undermine your productivity and success. So have those discussions, even if they’re high tension, or even if they take time to really flesh out, it’s worth getting clarity on that and being really happy on both ends with the arrangement, because the two of you are really partners. And if you’re not working together, it’s going to be hard to make progress.
Aoifinn Devitt: Those are some really excellent actionable pieces of advice there. So thank you for that. And just related to that, so you intersect very closely with many aspects of the tech world. What’s your— are your impressions of the experience of women in tech in general and in Israel in particular?
Michal: It’s interesting. In general, in Israel, I’ve seen women do really well. And I think that in some senses, there is more equality here, more gender equality here in Israel, where the country was really built by men and women working side by side, right, on the kibbutzim in the 1930s and the 1940s. You really had that equality of labor in building this country and changing swamps and deserts into cities. And if you think about it, someone like Golda Meir, one of Israel’s first prime ministers, she was one of the first female world leaders ever. So I think Israel in many ways is very progressive when it comes to their women. At the same time, in tech, there still is a very, very clear lack of diversity. And I have mixed feelings about this. I actually have a very close friend who is very high up in the tech world and one of the major tech brands in Tel Aviv. And she describes how at the entry level, it’s 50/50 men and women, and literally every stage after the percentage of women goes down to the point where it’s like at her stage it’s like 8% women and the rest men or something like that. And we were talking about why this is, and I think it can sometimes be hard to separate where there might be bias at play and where there’s just the choice. There’s a choice of being a mother, being more involved, working more part-time, not having such a responsible role. And that’s valid too. So for me, it’s hard to separate those threads. Like, if there isn’t complete equality when it comes to childcare, I cannot see how a woman could progress in her career the same level as her male counterpart unless she’s truly exceptional and just a superwoman to some extent. And then there are the women who, you know, then there’s the stages of childcare specifically like infanthood, right? That can easily be even given to a partner. In that first year of life, right? Especially if a woman needs, wants, chooses to breastfeed. So I guess my point is that there’s definitely a lack of diversity. I think it’s caused by a combination of factors, some of which we may not want to change because it’s the woman’s choice.
Aoifinn Devitt: And I think part of it is also role models. When we see more and more women in leadership and more role models, we start to visualize maybe a path to that direction. So It can be kind of self-reinforcing. The fewer women at those higher levels, the fewer women aspire to being in those higher levels because they just don’t see themselves in those roles. But one of the things I do think is key are, are certainly the support of our peers. And I know you’ve actually been quoted by one of our other guests as being tremendously supportive to her when she moved to Israel and started her business. Who are some of the key people who’ve influenced you in your career and your life so far?
Michal: I would definitely say Rob Marsh and Kira Hugg, who I mentioned earlier, the founders of the Copywriter Accelerator, the ones who inspired me to launch my own business. They taught me that being a mentor means being wise and also being very humble. So like, they kind of opened my eyes to this new mentor persona who, who knows a lot, but doesn’t claim to know it all and is very warm and approachable. It’s very clear to me. And I’ve met different coaches and consultants since then, but it’s very clear to me that that is the kind of mentor who works best for me. They also have a very people-first, relationship-first approach. So like, instead of thinking about short-term sales, short-term conversions, they really invest in relationships. And that has taught me a lot. I think one of the most unexpected gifts of this whole business journey has been the relationships I’ve made along the way. So like, even if my money goals were to completely flop, I feel that the relationships I’ve made have enriched my life so much. We really overlook that in this whole business world, the value of the connections we can make with colleagues and the value of building that strong network, not just for the financial gain, which there is to that too, but just for life enrichment gain.
Aoifinn Devitt: I completely agree. People who energize me, I think, leave a mark that goes far beyond any financial gain that, that could have come from that. Connected to that, is there any one piece of advice that you’ve received over the years or any creed or motto that you live by?
Michal: Yeah, so this is similar to what I spoke about before in terms of being protective of your time. I always tell myself, when you say yes to something, you are saying no to something else. So time is finite. Headspace is finite, energy is finite, and you need to keep that in mind when you say, yes, sure, I can do it, no problem. I am a sucker for opportunity. I love life. I love people. I love challenges. I love new things, but that’s not sustainable. You can’t accept every opportunity. You need to be selective and you need to choose intentionally and thoughtfully what you’re saying yes to.
Aoifinn Devitt: And if you were to give advice to your younger self, Is there anything that you know now that you wish you had known maybe in your early 20s?
Michal: Absolutely. This connects to what we actually started with at the beginning of the conversation, my very winding career path. What I would tell my younger self is figure out what you’re really good at, what speaks to you, what makes you excited to wake up in the morning, the kind of work where like after 3 hours you’re like, oh my God, 3 hours Right? Passed. That, that’s your passion, your skill. Take that and figure out how to make money with it, monetize it. That’s what I would have told my younger self before spending $30,000 on a master’s degree. So I actually have a funny story related to that. At my graduation, my master’s graduation, I spoke. And what I did besides a regular speech at the graduation, I had this inspiration a week or two before the event where we had built a real camaraderie, the 25 students in the class, and I decided that I was going to write a poem where there would be 2 stanzas dedicated to each member of the class, just as a beautiful wrap-up event saying goodbye to each other. And that was part of my speech, and it was a really well-done poem. And I laugh about it now because looking back Even then, when I was actually getting my master’s in speech-language pathology, I was still drawn to writing. And you see it so clearly that, like, if you’re drawn to something, don’t fight it. Go all in and figure out how to make a living from it.
Aoifinn Devitt: It was clearly meant to be. Well, thank you, Mikael. It’s been a real pleasure speaking with you today. You are such a force in the— not only the world of copywriting, but also on LinkedIn. You’ve been such a great source of advice and a great source of advice also on the issue of balancing work and family. And thank you for the very actionable and concrete pieces of advice you’ve given us here. Thank you for sharing your insights with us.
Michal: Thanks for having me. This was fun.
Aoifinn Devitt: I’m Aoifinn Devitt. Thank you for listening to our 50 Faces Focus Series. If you liked what you heard and would like to tune in to hear more inspiring Israeli women in tech and beyond, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as investment advice, and all views are personal and should not be attributed to the organizations and affiliations of the host or any guest.
