Aoifinn Devitt: What I’ve taken away from that is regardless of circumstance, regardless of any adversity that you may be facing, it’s— there is a standard that needs to be met if you expect to succeed and ultimately to win, whether that’s at life or in a game on the pitch. As an athlete, you’re almost institutionalized in a way where the only thing that matters is on-field performance. Everything in your life is geared towards that element. So you’re told where to be, what to wear, what to eat, how far to run, and how much weight to lift. And then you get thrown out of the whole system and put in the real world where ultimately your success or failure is down to you. And so being able to find those key mentors is crucial, and a lot of that comes from being a willing participant in your own success and rescue and, and seeking those out actively.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: I’m Aoifinn Devitt, and welcome to this 50 Faces Focus series, which which showcases the richness and diversity of inspiring people in the law. I’m joined today by Christian Scotland-Williamson. Christian is a two-sport athlete who played Premiership Rugby at a professional level in the UK and then moved to the US where he played NFL football with the Pittsburgh Steelers. While playing sport, he completed an MSc in International Business, and he is currently pursuing a course to become a barrister while being a broadcaster for TalkSport. Welcome, Christian. Thanks for joining me today.
Aoifinn Devitt: Thank you so much for having me on.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: Well, you have a very interesting background and not the most normal, I’d say, career trajectory. So can we talk about that, where you grew up and your career journey so far?
Aoifinn Devitt: Of course, it’s very unconventional. I was born in northeast London and I was educated at the Royal Grammar School, High Wycombe, where I was able to pursue rugby at a high schoolboy level and then ended up going to Loughborough University to continue my studies, not having any professional ambitions in mind., and it was only in my final year of studies that a fortunate event happened where Worcester Warriors needed a stand-in player for a fixture, and they liked me when I went down, and I signed a contract in the changing room 6 weeks later while making my professional debut.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: So can you go through your thought process? Like, was there any big decision involved in deciding to make that professional debut? Was it always something that you dreamed about? What were you thinking about then?
Aoifinn Devitt: It happened so suddenly. I come from a sporting family. My father was an ABA boxing champion and my brother played college basketball in America, so we’ve always been relatively naturally gifted. But I’d never had an opportunity to even consider playing professional sport. I was never in an academy and had never even played county rugby. So when the opportunity came about, it was very much just fulfilling an ambition of playing one singular game for a professional club. It wasn’t with view the view of actually having a career. I was actually studying to take up some grad schemes and was in the interview process at the time, and it was actually a huge fortune that I was able to cancel those interviews and say, I’ve actually got a job.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: So interesting. Well, I’m definitely going to talk a little bit about professional sport today and how it compares to the UK and the US, but at first I’d like to ask a little bit about what it’s like growing up in a household like that. What’s it like when sport is played at such a high level What are the emotional roller coasters, say, of watching your dad boxing? And equally for yourself, you said you’re all naturally gifted. Did you all just— whatever you picked up, you just naturally fell into or came first in every race in primary school?
Aoifinn Devitt: I think it actually stems from, well, actually both my parents, but in terms of the sporting context, my father instilled real discipline from an early age in terms of that boxing pursuit of always showing up. He used to tell stories of going for runs on Christmas Day because he knew that’s when his opposition wouldn’t be working. And I think I first set foot in a boxing gym when I was 3 or 4 years old. So I’ve always grown up with that culture of work and effort underpinning anything you want to do, and that’s permeated through every aspect of my life. So both my brother and I had a very broad spectrum of sporting endeavors where we swam, we did karate, football, and then he found his way in basketball and I found mine in rugby because It was something that I just took naturally to when I was 9 years old. And there was never any pressure on either of us to do anything at a high level with sport. It was always just, if you’ve made a commitment at the start of the season, you have to see the season through. And that was what underpinned our whole career. And then as we climbed through each level and started having more and more success, we were just ready for the opportunity when it came.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: And looking to the next generation, if you were to give advice to parents raising children now in terms of playing sport, would you say, have them play a lot of sports, not necessarily specialize too early. Is there any advice you, having played at this level, would give parents with respect to kids today?
Aoifinn Devitt: I’m a huge advocate for the broad base of an experience in childhood. So I played two sports professionally at the highest level, where people would think that they’re very similar, but they’re actually completely different, in rugby and American football. And I think that it was the ability to adapt, the ability to become accustomed to new environments and new rules of the game that allowed me to have success at both levels. Because my journey into elite sport, whether it was professional rugby or American football, was very sudden. And the ability to draw on that long history of being able to adapt under different circumstances and different pressure environments is really what came to the fore as an adult and as a professional.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: And let’s talk now about that journey into the NFL, because that’s clearly— you said different sport, different rules, different backdrop. I would imagine also just completely different ecosystem that it gets played in. How did you find that experience in the US and how would you compare the professional sports arena in the UK and the US?
Aoifinn Devitt: It was an eye-opening experience. It was something that I couldn’t have been prepared for without trying and experiencing it firsthand because it is so different to my experience in rugby. For example, we would get 12,000 to 15,000 people at a Premiership rugby game. And then I was put into an environment where we have 15,000 people watching practice at training camp. And then my second game in the NFL was at Lambeau Field in front of 85,000 people. So it’s a completely different scale. The commercial realities of the sport then filter and trickle down onto the field where decisions based on performance and effectively job security and the way contracts are structured mean that because there’s so much on the line with each game each Sunday, whether it’s from a coach’s perspective or a player’s perspective, there’s no margin for error. And that pressure and that need for elite performance really was astounding and eye-opening because yes, rugby is an elite sport and yes, soccer in England is an elite sport, but the way that America commercializes and put sport on a pedestal is just completely different.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: Interesting. And would you say that anyone is preferable? Do you think there are flaws in both systems? I think we mentioned in our pre-call just some of the struggles that sometimes some professional leagues have in the UK.
Aoifinn Devitt: Yes, definitely. I think I’ve seen it firsthand with returning to rugby and most recently playing for Harlequins, and then seeing my former club Worcester Warriors go into liquidation. Because of insolvency and not being able to make the business of the sport add up financially. I think that that also affects players in terms of you have to dedicate so much to being a professional your whole life, effectively, where you’re not actively encouraged to pursue other elements of your personality or potentially career progressions beyond the sport. And so when a club gets into financial difficulty and then suddenly you find yourself unemployed with a very narrow skill set in that you are a rugby player, for example, then suddenly if another team isn’t looking for your services, you have the harsh reality of completely having to reskill yourself, and it’s an unexpected stage of your life.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: And looking back at both experiences now, before we move on to your current focuses, would you say there are any highs and lows, any really memorable either times that you excelled and were recognized for it, or times when your hopes were crushed? Because it have some pretty stark volatility, I would imagine, both of those fields.
Aoifinn Devitt: Most definitely. I experienced the volatility in my first full-time season. I had back surgery, I had two fractured vertebrae, and was out for a week shy of two years. And that’s actually the reason why I went back to university and got my master’s. So I’d actually say that the biggest win that I was able to, to have and the biggest victory was off the field, where I walked across the stage and collected my master’s certificate, which brought an end to what was a very tumultuous period in my life where I wasn’t sure if I was going to have to retire as a 21-year-old because I had a broken back. And so I chose to use that time as well as rehabbing and go back to school, get my degree. And then after I’d walked the stage on my graduation, 4 weeks later I was on my way to the NFL. So I guess in a quite a circular fashion, being able to channel my focus and turn that frustration into something positive, which actually was nothing to do with sport and something that could never be taken away from me in that degree, was probably my greatest victory, which was actually born out of some frustrations in my career where I wasn’t able to have the success on the field that I would have hoped for.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: And let’s fast forward now to that degree you pursued and then now pursuing the bar. Can you tell us about your thought process there, particularly into law, as that’s not— again, it’s a bit circuitous, but obviously there’s clearly an opportunity there.
Aoifinn Devitt: I’ve always wanted to be a barrister, actually, from my— I had a look through my old yearbook, and in 2004, as a 10-year-old, that was my career ambition. It wasn’t playing sports. So I’ve come full circle back to what I guess was my main endeavor and pursuit and goal. So Now, having had the experiences that I’ve had in professional sport, playing across two different sports in rugby and American football, it’s actually given me a huge understanding of both the commercial realities of the sport and also the harsh realities that there are some things that happen within professional sporting environments and that I’ve experienced firsthand, where you aren’t aware of what your rights are, you aren’t aware of how things should be done properly. And I suppose that that’s what’s fueled my pursuit now as an adult, where effectively I want to have and equip myself with the ability to have the knowledge that I didn’t have earlier in my career, and then hopefully ensure that similar things that happen to me don’t happen to other people.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: Really interesting. And I’m sort of visualizing, but I’m looking— think about your dad in the boxing ring and being in the arena, and then you as a barrister being in an arena. I would imagine there are very similar traits from your sport that you’re bringing into your new professional career.
Aoifinn Devitt: Relentless discipline, focus, perseverance. I think those are the ones that jump out and are front of mind. But it’s actually also the ability to be honest and accept sometimes harsh feedback and criticism, because as a professional, you are sometimes critiqued by thousands, if not millions of people, whether it’s online or in the stadium. And so the ability to be honest with yourself and have a genuine appraisal of your abilities, whether they were good enough, was your performance where it should have been, is what most athletes, I believe, can carry into their next career, whatever endeavors they choose to do after they’ve finished playing. Because ultimately, it’s that process of preparation, performance, and review that will underpin any success in any industry and any improvement and allow people to get closer to their goals.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: And what particular area interests you and excites you now at the bar? I know you’re studying, but you bring a degree in international business with you, and you mentioned some of these potential for maybe being in the area of sports law or rights. Any particular area that is exciting you these days?
Aoifinn Devitt: I think a really burgeoning area is the intersection of commercial IP, sport, and media. Having played, and I think it really came to the fore when I was in America and was able to do a few internships at venture capital firms and with licensing companies, that the reality is sport is a global industry. I feel like the UK is slightly behind America in commercializing it and commercializing the full spectrum of what that sporting package entails. And so for me now, coming back, I do feel that there’s a gap in the market in terms of that knowledge and understanding and being able to bridge that between the playing side and then also to having the technical knowledge is, is what’s exciting.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: And a lot of this podcast series focuses on diversity because we found that some of the underrepresentation that we see in the world of finance, where I spend most of my time, is replicated in law. Maybe less so in the law firms. They seem to have addressed some of their imbalance, but at the bar, my sense is there is still a challenge. What has your experience been? And maybe we can even go right back to other strands of your career in terms of diversity and what’s being done about it?
Aoifinn Devitt: I think I would speak firstly to my experience as a rugby player, where I was only ever one of 3, perhaps 4 Black players on my team, and I never had someone that looked like me in a leadership position, be that at a junior level or professionally. I was then thrust into an environment in the Pittsburgh Steelers where the head coach was a renowned Black leader, and I was able to experience that firsthand. And now coming back, having had those diametrically, I suppose, opposed cultural experiences and now pursuing a career in the commercial bar, the visibility piece is something that really jumps out at me in terms of there’s no one that I’m seeing but a handful of people who I can, I suppose, look to for guidance or that is a possibility. And I think that’s something that needs to be addressed. And I think There are schemes and there are efforts to address the imbalances, but it can only happen through people of my generation, of my age group, trying to change what is an established culture and established practice where opportunities sometimes are few and far between.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: And have you found any initiatives, say affinity groups? For example, we interviewed Stephanie Boyce, who was the head of the Law Society, a very prominent figure who has done a great deal to really push the cause of underrepresented minorities, and someone like her is really making a massive difference just by being a great role model. Have you seen any, anything that’s worked in your view to encourage maybe more people of color into the bar, or to make the passage more positive when they’re there?
Aoifinn Devitt: In my own personal experience, I could only speak to the mentorships that I have been able to cultivate, and I’m extremely privileged to have. Harry Matovu, Margaret Casely-Hayford, and some others who I won’t mention. But it’s been much more of an individual and personal level that I’ve been able to lean on them for their experiences, their ability to transition and work their way through a system which wasn’t as favorable for them as it is now. And I know that there are visible efforts to improve the diversity at the Bar and within law.. And we are just waiting to see the fruits of that labor.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: And of course, Margaret Casely-Hayford was a previous guest on this podcast, recorded in the middle of COVID and an absolutely inspiring story there. So no surprise that she will be a wonderful mentor. Let’s just go to that question of mentorship, because already you’ve spoken a lot about your family background and how that motivated you. Were there any, besides Margaret and your other mentors you’ve mentioned, any key people across the course of your career, maybe at key decision points who helped you, influenced you, and really influenced the course you’re on?
Aoifinn Devitt: I would definitely say the coach I’ve already spoken about, Coach Mike Tomlin, who’s the head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers. And his motto, and one that’s emblazoned on the wall in the facility as you walk in, is, ‘The standard is the standard.’ And that relates to on-field performance but also in life. And that’s something that I’ve carried with me since my time with the team because Effectively, what it speaks to is a standard of performance, a standard of accountability that each individual should hold themselves to, whether that’s in a team setting or as an individual trying to pursue their goals, say, in a self-employed pursuit like the bar, for example. And what I’ve taken away from that is, regardless of circumstance, regardless of any adversity that you may be facing, it’s— there is a standard that needs to be met if you expect to succeed and ultimately to win, whether that’s at life or in a game. On the pitch.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: And it’s really interesting because obviously in sport, one is privileged to have an inspiring coach like that. We don’t always have that coach throughout our lives, throughout our college lives, maybe throughout our work lives. How have you found that anchor? Because I think we often need times reminding, well, what is that standard? Or just evidence of how it is in practice outside sport. Have you found coaches or mentors outside sport too?
Aoifinn Devitt: That’s what this new chapter has been the most exciting about. It’s trying to find those same coaches, but with the mentor Monica, who can help guide me through this transition, guide me through the next phase of my life, which as an athlete you almost institutionalized in a way where the only thing that matters is on-field performance. Everything in your life is geared towards that element. So you’re told where to be, what to wear, what to eat, how far to run, and how much weight to lift. And then you get thrown out of the whole system and put in the real world where Ultimately, your success or failure is down to you. And so being able to find those key mentors is crucial. And a lot of that comes from being a willing participant in your own success and rescue and, and seeking those out actively. So the mentors I’ve already spoken about are able to guide me in a manner where I’m used to receiving coaching, I’m used to receiving critique and information about how I can improve as an individual or an athlete. And so now it’s about channeling those messages and really trying to be productive and put them to good use.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: And you mentioned something interesting there about feedback, because I think that’s a particularly tricky one for high performers, because even though we all benefit from it, and I presume we all crave it, actually getting it can be a challenge, and that sometimes we don’t find enough people willing to give it. But then when we do get it, we personalize it, maybe don’t see it in the spirit in which it was intended. I presume this also happens in sports when you have, I’m sure, ego that’s come from great success. Coming into that arena. How have you learned, and how have you seen people learn, to take feedback in the right way?
Aoifinn Devitt: A great quote that one of my coaches at Loughborough actually gave me was, feedback is feedback, you’re the one that puts the emotion to it. And I thought that was brilliant, and that’s followed me throughout my career, because objectively, in a high-performance environment that is sport, if I miss a tackle, that is not because I’m a bad person,. It’s not because other things surrounding my life have contributed to that. It’s the fact that I genuinely have not executed my task. And so the emotion that gets attached to it, whether it’s in a corporate setting or a business setting, is the fact that is it right or wrong? Ultimately, it becomes down to the raw facts of the matter rather than the emotion that is easily attached to each feedback, each review., where you may go into it thinking, does this make me a bad person? Does this make me any less of an individual because I’ve made a mistake or I’ve got something right? It might be the fact that you let praise go to your head. And so understanding that, understanding that ultimately you can be more objective and detailed about critiquing an exercise or a result is really at the forefront of it, where the emotion gets attached by the individual sometimes. Obviously the delivery of feedback. Is important. But I’ve had many moments in my career where I’ve had to hear the message and not the tone.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: That’s really interesting. And also, there’s also a sense sometimes, maybe because in business things are not as objective, say, as missing a tackle— it could be one person’s point of view versus another, which is a little more subjective— but also that you have to coach things with a positive feedback, this kind of compliment sandwich. I would hope in professional sport we haven’t got to that level, that that’s not necessary. Have you found that egos are sufficiently robust that feedback can be given without the need for the, the positive feedback surrounding it?
Aoifinn Devitt: I hate to say it, but sometimes there isn’t much choice. It’s very different where the normal rules of the normal working environment sometimes actually don’t apply. And what I’ve noticed as well is that it takes a huge amount of skill to understand what each individual needs at any given moment. And I think the best leaders that I’ve been around have been extremely skilled and adept at understanding that, understanding which buttons to push at the right moment in time and which athletes or individuals can cope with receiving certain messages in certain ways. For example, sometimes certain athletes need to be told in front of a group what they’ve done wrong, whereas others you would end up getting the worst performance out of them the following week. So it’s just understanding that individual detail, that individual needs to be sometimes have an arm put around them as opposed to being reprimanded in front of a group. And I think that really applies to everything. It’s no two people are the same and no two people will receive feedback in the same fashion.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: Very interesting. And you’ve given us lots of words of wisdom already out of the mouths of your coaches as well as being on the wall. I’ve learned a huge amount. If you were to just look now at any creed or motto that you live by, like what would you put on your wall? That Pittsburgh Steelers wall, anything that you can share there?
Aoifinn Devitt: I think the thing that has underpinned my whole adventure, whether it’s in sport or beyond, has been that you can know something in your spirit without understanding it in your head. So sometimes there’s an energy speaking to you that you know is the right way to go or the right thing to do, but rationally it doesn’t make sense. And so for me, I’ve always tried to listen to that voice.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: Really interesting. So a lot of intuition and gut feel there still mattering. And if you were to give advice to your younger self, to that young man considering whether to go to the NFL or maybe even going back earlier, is there anything that you know now having had this career and embarking on a new one that you wish you had known earlier?
Aoifinn Devitt: I think it definitely comes down to the fact that the biggest successes are often off of the back of what seems to be the moments of the greatest despair. So for example, breaking my back— I now look at it as the best thing that ever happened to me, but at the time I couldn’t see beyond my circumstance and effectively wallow in it.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: Well, that’s very profound, certainly, to be able to see things in that light. Well, thank you so much, Christian. It’s been a real pleasure to speak with you. You’ve managed to, in a short space of time, demystify the echelons of professional sports in two countries for us here and distill the wisdom of some I suppose many, many famous people who have been put on pedestals for good reason. And I think it’s great to hear their wisdom and try to apply it in our everyday lives. So thank you for sharing those with us and for sharing your insights on the podcast.
Aoifinn Devitt: Thank you so much for having me on.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: I’m Aoifinn Devitt. Thank you for listening to our 50 Faces Focus Series. If you liked what you heard and would like to tune in to hear more inspiring lawyers and their stories, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as investment advice, and all views are personal and should not be attributed to the organizations and affiliations of the host or any guest.
Aoifinn Devitt: What I’ve taken away from that is regardless of circumstance, regardless of any adversity that you may be facing, it’s— there is a standard that needs to be met if you expect to succeed and ultimately to win, whether that’s at life or in a game on the pitch. As an athlete, you’re almost institutionalized in a way where the only thing that matters is on-field performance. Everything in your life is geared towards that element. So you’re told where to be, what to wear, what to eat, how far to run, and how much weight to lift. And then you get thrown out of the whole system and put in the real world where ultimately your success or failure is down to you. And so being able to find those key mentors is crucial, and a lot of that comes from being a willing participant in your own success and rescue and, and seeking those out actively.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: I’m Aoifinn Devitt, and welcome to this 50 Faces Focus series, which which showcases the richness and diversity of inspiring people in the law. I’m joined today by Christian Scotland-Williamson. Christian is a two-sport athlete who played Premiership Rugby at a professional level in the UK and then moved to the US where he played NFL football with the Pittsburgh Steelers. While playing sport, he completed an MSc in International Business, and he is currently pursuing a course to become a barrister while being a broadcaster for TalkSport. Welcome, Christian. Thanks for joining me today.
Aoifinn Devitt: Thank you so much for having me on.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: Well, you have a very interesting background and not the most normal, I’d say, career trajectory. So can we talk about that, where you grew up and your career journey so far?
Aoifinn Devitt: Of course, it’s very unconventional. I was born in northeast London and I was educated at the Royal Grammar School, High Wycombe, where I was able to pursue rugby at a high schoolboy level and then ended up going to Loughborough University to continue my studies, not having any professional ambitions in mind., and it was only in my final year of studies that a fortunate event happened where Worcester Warriors needed a stand-in player for a fixture, and they liked me when I went down, and I signed a contract in the changing room 6 weeks later while making my professional debut.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: So can you go through your thought process? Like, was there any big decision involved in deciding to make that professional debut? Was it always something that you dreamed about? What were you thinking about then?
Aoifinn Devitt: It happened so suddenly. I come from a sporting family. My father was an ABA boxing champion and my brother played college basketball in America, so we’ve always been relatively naturally gifted. But I’d never had an opportunity to even consider playing professional sport. I was never in an academy and had never even played county rugby. So when the opportunity came about, it was very much just fulfilling an ambition of playing one singular game for a professional club. It wasn’t with view the view of actually having a career. I was actually studying to take up some grad schemes and was in the interview process at the time, and it was actually a huge fortune that I was able to cancel those interviews and say, I’ve actually got a job.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: So interesting. Well, I’m definitely going to talk a little bit about professional sport today and how it compares to the UK and the US, but at first I’d like to ask a little bit about what it’s like growing up in a household like that. What’s it like when sport is played at such a high level What are the emotional roller coasters, say, of watching your dad boxing? And equally for yourself, you said you’re all naturally gifted. Did you all just— whatever you picked up, you just naturally fell into or came first in every race in primary school?
Aoifinn Devitt: I think it actually stems from, well, actually both my parents, but in terms of the sporting context, my father instilled real discipline from an early age in terms of that boxing pursuit of always showing up. He used to tell stories of going for runs on Christmas Day because he knew that’s when his opposition wouldn’t be working. And I think I first set foot in a boxing gym when I was 3 or 4 years old. So I’ve always grown up with that culture of work and effort underpinning anything you want to do, and that’s permeated through every aspect of my life. So both my brother and I had a very broad spectrum of sporting endeavors where we swam, we did karate, football, and then he found his way in basketball and I found mine in rugby because It was something that I just took naturally to when I was 9 years old. And there was never any pressure on either of us to do anything at a high level with sport. It was always just, if you’ve made a commitment at the start of the season, you have to see the season through. And that was what underpinned our whole career. And then as we climbed through each level and started having more and more success, we were just ready for the opportunity when it came.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: And looking to the next generation, if you were to give advice to parents raising children now in terms of playing sport, would you say, have them play a lot of sports, not necessarily specialize too early. Is there any advice you, having played at this level, would give parents with respect to kids today?
Aoifinn Devitt: I’m a huge advocate for the broad base of an experience in childhood. So I played two sports professionally at the highest level, where people would think that they’re very similar, but they’re actually completely different, in rugby and American football. And I think that it was the ability to adapt, the ability to become accustomed to new environments and new rules of the game that allowed me to have success at both levels. Because my journey into elite sport, whether it was professional rugby or American football, was very sudden. And the ability to draw on that long history of being able to adapt under different circumstances and different pressure environments is really what came to the fore as an adult and as a professional.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: And let’s talk now about that journey into the NFL, because that’s clearly— you said different sport, different rules, different backdrop. I would imagine also just completely different ecosystem that it gets played in. How did you find that experience in the US and how would you compare the professional sports arena in the UK and the US?
Aoifinn Devitt: It was an eye-opening experience. It was something that I couldn’t have been prepared for without trying and experiencing it firsthand because it is so different to my experience in rugby. For example, we would get 12,000 to 15,000 people at a Premiership rugby game. And then I was put into an environment where we have 15,000 people watching practice at training camp. And then my second game in the NFL was at Lambeau Field in front of 85,000 people. So it’s a completely different scale. The commercial realities of the sport then filter and trickle down onto the field where decisions based on performance and effectively job security and the way contracts are structured mean that because there’s so much on the line with each game each Sunday, whether it’s from a coach’s perspective or a player’s perspective, there’s no margin for error. And that pressure and that need for elite performance really was astounding and eye-opening because yes, rugby is an elite sport and yes, soccer in England is an elite sport, but the way that America commercializes and put sport on a pedestal is just completely different.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: Interesting. And would you say that anyone is preferable? Do you think there are flaws in both systems? I think we mentioned in our pre-call just some of the struggles that sometimes some professional leagues have in the UK.
Aoifinn Devitt: Yes, definitely. I think I’ve seen it firsthand with returning to rugby and most recently playing for Harlequins, and then seeing my former club Worcester Warriors go into liquidation. Because of insolvency and not being able to make the business of the sport add up financially. I think that that also affects players in terms of you have to dedicate so much to being a professional your whole life, effectively, where you’re not actively encouraged to pursue other elements of your personality or potentially career progressions beyond the sport. And so when a club gets into financial difficulty and then suddenly you find yourself unemployed with a very narrow skill set in that you are a rugby player, for example, then suddenly if another team isn’t looking for your services, you have the harsh reality of completely having to reskill yourself, and it’s an unexpected stage of your life.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: And looking back at both experiences now, before we move on to your current focuses, would you say there are any highs and lows, any really memorable either times that you excelled and were recognized for it, or times when your hopes were crushed? Because it have some pretty stark volatility, I would imagine, both of those fields.
Aoifinn Devitt: Most definitely. I experienced the volatility in my first full-time season. I had back surgery, I had two fractured vertebrae, and was out for a week shy of two years. And that’s actually the reason why I went back to university and got my master’s. So I’d actually say that the biggest win that I was able to, to have and the biggest victory was off the field, where I walked across the stage and collected my master’s certificate, which brought an end to what was a very tumultuous period in my life where I wasn’t sure if I was going to have to retire as a 21-year-old because I had a broken back. And so I chose to use that time as well as rehabbing and go back to school, get my degree. And then after I’d walked the stage on my graduation, 4 weeks later I was on my way to the NFL. So I guess in a quite a circular fashion, being able to channel my focus and turn that frustration into something positive, which actually was nothing to do with sport and something that could never be taken away from me in that degree, was probably my greatest victory, which was actually born out of some frustrations in my career where I wasn’t able to have the success on the field that I would have hoped for.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: And let’s fast forward now to that degree you pursued and then now pursuing the bar. Can you tell us about your thought process there, particularly into law, as that’s not— again, it’s a bit circuitous, but obviously there’s clearly an opportunity there.
Aoifinn Devitt: I’ve always wanted to be a barrister, actually, from my— I had a look through my old yearbook, and in 2004, as a 10-year-old, that was my career ambition. It wasn’t playing sports. So I’ve come full circle back to what I guess was my main endeavor and pursuit and goal. So Now, having had the experiences that I’ve had in professional sport, playing across two different sports in rugby and American football, it’s actually given me a huge understanding of both the commercial realities of the sport and also the harsh realities that there are some things that happen within professional sporting environments and that I’ve experienced firsthand, where you aren’t aware of what your rights are, you aren’t aware of how things should be done properly. And I suppose that that’s what’s fueled my pursuit now as an adult, where effectively I want to have and equip myself with the ability to have the knowledge that I didn’t have earlier in my career, and then hopefully ensure that similar things that happen to me don’t happen to other people.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: Really interesting. And I’m sort of visualizing, but I’m looking— think about your dad in the boxing ring and being in the arena, and then you as a barrister being in an arena. I would imagine there are very similar traits from your sport that you’re bringing into your new professional career.
Aoifinn Devitt: Relentless discipline, focus, perseverance. I think those are the ones that jump out and are front of mind. But it’s actually also the ability to be honest and accept sometimes harsh feedback and criticism, because as a professional, you are sometimes critiqued by thousands, if not millions of people, whether it’s online or in the stadium. And so the ability to be honest with yourself and have a genuine appraisal of your abilities, whether they were good enough, was your performance where it should have been, is what most athletes, I believe, can carry into their next career, whatever endeavors they choose to do after they’ve finished playing. Because ultimately, it’s that process of preparation, performance, and review that will underpin any success in any industry and any improvement and allow people to get closer to their goals.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: And what particular area interests you and excites you now at the bar? I know you’re studying, but you bring a degree in international business with you, and you mentioned some of these potential for maybe being in the area of sports law or rights. Any particular area that is exciting you these days?
Aoifinn Devitt: I think a really burgeoning area is the intersection of commercial IP, sport, and media. Having played, and I think it really came to the fore when I was in America and was able to do a few internships at venture capital firms and with licensing companies, that the reality is sport is a global industry. I feel like the UK is slightly behind America in commercializing it and commercializing the full spectrum of what that sporting package entails. And so for me now, coming back, I do feel that there’s a gap in the market in terms of that knowledge and understanding and being able to bridge that between the playing side and then also to having the technical knowledge is, is what’s exciting.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: And a lot of this podcast series focuses on diversity because we found that some of the underrepresentation that we see in the world of finance, where I spend most of my time, is replicated in law. Maybe less so in the law firms. They seem to have addressed some of their imbalance, but at the bar, my sense is there is still a challenge. What has your experience been? And maybe we can even go right back to other strands of your career in terms of diversity and what’s being done about it?
Aoifinn Devitt: I think I would speak firstly to my experience as a rugby player, where I was only ever one of 3, perhaps 4 Black players on my team, and I never had someone that looked like me in a leadership position, be that at a junior level or professionally. I was then thrust into an environment in the Pittsburgh Steelers where the head coach was a renowned Black leader, and I was able to experience that firsthand. And now coming back, having had those diametrically, I suppose, opposed cultural experiences and now pursuing a career in the commercial bar, the visibility piece is something that really jumps out at me in terms of there’s no one that I’m seeing but a handful of people who I can, I suppose, look to for guidance or that is a possibility. And I think that’s something that needs to be addressed. And I think There are schemes and there are efforts to address the imbalances, but it can only happen through people of my generation, of my age group, trying to change what is an established culture and established practice where opportunities sometimes are few and far between.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: And have you found any initiatives, say affinity groups? For example, we interviewed Stephanie Boyce, who was the head of the Law Society, a very prominent figure who has done a great deal to really push the cause of underrepresented minorities, and someone like her is really making a massive difference just by being a great role model. Have you seen any, anything that’s worked in your view to encourage maybe more people of color into the bar, or to make the passage more positive when they’re there?
Aoifinn Devitt: In my own personal experience, I could only speak to the mentorships that I have been able to cultivate, and I’m extremely privileged to have. Harry Matovu, Margaret Casely-Hayford, and some others who I won’t mention. But it’s been much more of an individual and personal level that I’ve been able to lean on them for their experiences, their ability to transition and work their way through a system which wasn’t as favorable for them as it is now. And I know that there are visible efforts to improve the diversity at the Bar and within law.. And we are just waiting to see the fruits of that labor.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: And of course, Margaret Casely-Hayford was a previous guest on this podcast, recorded in the middle of COVID and an absolutely inspiring story there. So no surprise that she will be a wonderful mentor. Let’s just go to that question of mentorship, because already you’ve spoken a lot about your family background and how that motivated you. Were there any, besides Margaret and your other mentors you’ve mentioned, any key people across the course of your career, maybe at key decision points who helped you, influenced you, and really influenced the course you’re on?
Aoifinn Devitt: I would definitely say the coach I’ve already spoken about, Coach Mike Tomlin, who’s the head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers. And his motto, and one that’s emblazoned on the wall in the facility as you walk in, is, ‘The standard is the standard.’ And that relates to on-field performance but also in life. And that’s something that I’ve carried with me since my time with the team because Effectively, what it speaks to is a standard of performance, a standard of accountability that each individual should hold themselves to, whether that’s in a team setting or as an individual trying to pursue their goals, say, in a self-employed pursuit like the bar, for example. And what I’ve taken away from that is, regardless of circumstance, regardless of any adversity that you may be facing, it’s— there is a standard that needs to be met if you expect to succeed and ultimately to win, whether that’s at life or in a game. On the pitch.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: And it’s really interesting because obviously in sport, one is privileged to have an inspiring coach like that. We don’t always have that coach throughout our lives, throughout our college lives, maybe throughout our work lives. How have you found that anchor? Because I think we often need times reminding, well, what is that standard? Or just evidence of how it is in practice outside sport. Have you found coaches or mentors outside sport too?
Aoifinn Devitt: That’s what this new chapter has been the most exciting about. It’s trying to find those same coaches, but with the mentor Monica, who can help guide me through this transition, guide me through the next phase of my life, which as an athlete you almost institutionalized in a way where the only thing that matters is on-field performance. Everything in your life is geared towards that element. So you’re told where to be, what to wear, what to eat, how far to run, and how much weight to lift. And then you get thrown out of the whole system and put in the real world where Ultimately, your success or failure is down to you. And so being able to find those key mentors is crucial. And a lot of that comes from being a willing participant in your own success and rescue and, and seeking those out actively. So the mentors I’ve already spoken about are able to guide me in a manner where I’m used to receiving coaching, I’m used to receiving critique and information about how I can improve as an individual or an athlete. And so now it’s about channeling those messages and really trying to be productive and put them to good use.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: And you mentioned something interesting there about feedback, because I think that’s a particularly tricky one for high performers, because even though we all benefit from it, and I presume we all crave it, actually getting it can be a challenge, and that sometimes we don’t find enough people willing to give it. But then when we do get it, we personalize it, maybe don’t see it in the spirit in which it was intended. I presume this also happens in sports when you have, I’m sure, ego that’s come from great success. Coming into that arena. How have you learned, and how have you seen people learn, to take feedback in the right way?
Aoifinn Devitt: A great quote that one of my coaches at Loughborough actually gave me was, feedback is feedback, you’re the one that puts the emotion to it. And I thought that was brilliant, and that’s followed me throughout my career, because objectively, in a high-performance environment that is sport, if I miss a tackle, that is not because I’m a bad person,. It’s not because other things surrounding my life have contributed to that. It’s the fact that I genuinely have not executed my task. And so the emotion that gets attached to it, whether it’s in a corporate setting or a business setting, is the fact that is it right or wrong? Ultimately, it becomes down to the raw facts of the matter rather than the emotion that is easily attached to each feedback, each review., where you may go into it thinking, does this make me a bad person? Does this make me any less of an individual because I’ve made a mistake or I’ve got something right? It might be the fact that you let praise go to your head. And so understanding that, understanding that ultimately you can be more objective and detailed about critiquing an exercise or a result is really at the forefront of it, where the emotion gets attached by the individual sometimes. Obviously the delivery of feedback. Is important. But I’ve had many moments in my career where I’ve had to hear the message and not the tone.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: That’s really interesting. And also, there’s also a sense sometimes, maybe because in business things are not as objective, say, as missing a tackle— it could be one person’s point of view versus another, which is a little more subjective— but also that you have to coach things with a positive feedback, this kind of compliment sandwich. I would hope in professional sport we haven’t got to that level, that that’s not necessary. Have you found that egos are sufficiently robust that feedback can be given without the need for the, the positive feedback surrounding it?
Aoifinn Devitt: I hate to say it, but sometimes there isn’t much choice. It’s very different where the normal rules of the normal working environment sometimes actually don’t apply. And what I’ve noticed as well is that it takes a huge amount of skill to understand what each individual needs at any given moment. And I think the best leaders that I’ve been around have been extremely skilled and adept at understanding that, understanding which buttons to push at the right moment in time and which athletes or individuals can cope with receiving certain messages in certain ways. For example, sometimes certain athletes need to be told in front of a group what they’ve done wrong, whereas others you would end up getting the worst performance out of them the following week. So it’s just understanding that individual detail, that individual needs to be sometimes have an arm put around them as opposed to being reprimanded in front of a group. And I think that really applies to everything. It’s no two people are the same and no two people will receive feedback in the same fashion.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: Very interesting. And you’ve given us lots of words of wisdom already out of the mouths of your coaches as well as being on the wall. I’ve learned a huge amount. If you were to just look now at any creed or motto that you live by, like what would you put on your wall? That Pittsburgh Steelers wall, anything that you can share there?
Aoifinn Devitt: I think the thing that has underpinned my whole adventure, whether it’s in sport or beyond, has been that you can know something in your spirit without understanding it in your head. So sometimes there’s an energy speaking to you that you know is the right way to go or the right thing to do, but rationally it doesn’t make sense. And so for me, I’ve always tried to listen to that voice.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: Really interesting. So a lot of intuition and gut feel there still mattering. And if you were to give advice to your younger self, to that young man considering whether to go to the NFL or maybe even going back earlier, is there anything that you know now having had this career and embarking on a new one that you wish you had known earlier?
Aoifinn Devitt: I think it definitely comes down to the fact that the biggest successes are often off of the back of what seems to be the moments of the greatest despair. So for example, breaking my back— I now look at it as the best thing that ever happened to me, but at the time I couldn’t see beyond my circumstance and effectively wallow in it.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: Well, that’s very profound, certainly, to be able to see things in that light. Well, thank you so much, Christian. It’s been a real pleasure to speak with you. You’ve managed to, in a short space of time, demystify the echelons of professional sports in two countries for us here and distill the wisdom of some I suppose many, many famous people who have been put on pedestals for good reason. And I think it’s great to hear their wisdom and try to apply it in our everyday lives. So thank you for sharing those with us and for sharing your insights on the podcast.
Aoifinn Devitt: Thank you so much for having me on.
Christian Scotland-Williamson: I’m Aoifinn Devitt. Thank you for listening to our 50 Faces Focus Series. If you liked what you heard and would like to tune in to hear more inspiring lawyers and their stories, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as investment advice, and all views are personal and should not be attributed to the organizations and affiliations of the host or any guest.
