Aoifinn Devitt: We would like to thank the International Business of Federated Hermes for providing production support for this episode. Welcome to the second of our 50 Faces breakout rooms focused on the Classroom to Boardroom program, a program that was the brainchild of Derek Brown of Entrepreneurs in Action and Mitesh Seth of Reddington. And was designed as a way to tackle underrepresentation of Black talent in the investment management industry. The program held online during the summer of 2020, brought a cross-section of Black youth across high school and college programs in the UK together with asset management executives and aimed to provide a thorough introduction to the asset management industry, as well as to hear directly from Black youth about some of the challenges that they face. In the first breakout room, we heard from the asset managers. Now we want to hear from the students about their experience. I’m joined here by Jonathan, Amarachi, and Sarah, all of whom participated in the Summer Programme. I’m also joined by Derek Brown. Over to you, Jonathan.
Classroom to Boardroom Part 2: So I’m studying economics at Lancaster University. I’m currently, I’m doing a year-long placement, and I’ll be going back next year in September to do my final year of university.
Speaker C: Amarachi, Hi, my name’s Amarachi and I am currently in sixth form studying A-level Chemistry, Biology, and Maths, and one day I hope to go to Cambridge University to study Veterinary Medicine.
Aoifinn Devitt: And Sarah.
Speaker D: Good afternoon everyone, my name is Sarah. I’m currently in my second year of sixth form studying Economics, Psychology, and Media. I’ll be going to uni next year, hopefully to study Economics and Management.
Aoifinn Devitt: Great. So 3 of you are clearly at a critical stage in terms of your education. Can you just tell us what the lockdown experience was like for you and how it disrupted your education starting in March of last year? I’ll just start with Amarachi, that question.
Speaker C: Yeah, the, the whole lockdown announcement, at first it was a big shock and it it was, was hard to know that there were some friends that I was probably never going to see for a very long time because they might have been moving schools and we didn’t really have a proper chance to say goodbye. And then with education, I was fortunate that I was in Year 11 at the time, and so I had my GCSE exams coming up. So there was a lot of anxiety to start off with that we didn’t know what our grades were going to be. We knew that the exams weren’t happening, so we weren’t sure how our hard work was going to be reflected in our grades. There was a good few months of anxiety and worrying. And a lot of last-minute assessments from our teachers, and a lot of lockdown tasks that we had to do that our teachers could use to try and assess us. And when we heard about what had happened on A-level results day, it made that anxiety worse because we knew some people were getting downgraded just because of their school, or because of various, various factors. So, in terms of actual education, there wasn’t much more we had to learn, so that was fortunate, but I think the worry about our results, our GCSE results, was probably the worst part of the whole lockdown experience.
Aoifinn Devitt: Jonathan?
Classroom to Boardroom Part 2: The summer was quite hectic, not knowing about having my end-of-year exams at university, with some exams being cancelled, some being moved online. And that made my revision schedule quite difficult and quite hard. And then obviously then joining a team on my placement and trying to interact with that team but virtually was quite difficult. Doing my learnings of the industry and of my role was also quite difficult virtually, but yeah.
Aoifinn Devitt: Sarah.
Speaker D: The lockdown was quite a shock, but as I was in my first year of A-levels we kind of had to stop. We had to stop, but we started doing online learning literally the next week after the lockdown had happened, so we didn’t miss out on much. But I would say that learning at home is very different from learning in school. It requires a lot more effort and internal motivation. Um, we did miss some exams we had, um, because at A-level you have to do AS exams so we weren’t able to do our AS exams. Our teachers had to base our predicted grades off of classwork, and when we recently came back to Year 2, um, A-level Year 2, we had to do some assessments late, really late, which gave us our predicted grades. And I’ll say that it kind of halted the process of applying for universities. Like, I only just recently finished my UCAS application and I feel like it should have been finished quite a while ago. Other than that, the lockdown hasn’t— I wouldn’t say it’s affected me too, too much because it’s kind of helped me. I’ve learned how to type faster. I know how to use a computer better. So there’s some positives to it.
Aoifinn Devitt: That’s fantastic. And then Derek, then maybe just remind us of the origins of the Classroom to Boardroom programme.
Speaker E: Classroom to Boardroom, we started Classroom to Boardroom programme about 17 years ago, 16, 17 years ago. Ago, Years and it was as an opportunity for students to get that chance to work on real business challenges and also for schools to connect with business in a different way. And it also acted as a bridge for employers and businesses to connect with students in a way they hadn’t done previously. So the program really revolves around students working on real business challenges that businesses are facing and then giving the students that opportunity to get that real-life business experience, which culminates with a presentation to senior leaders in the boardroom. So hence the start in the classroom, end up in the boardroom equals classroom to boardroom.
Aoifinn Devitt: And I’d love to now move to the students to hear how they heard about that program, and maybe we can start with Jonathan. Jonathan, how did you hear about the Classroom to Boardroom program, and were you already interested in the investment management industry?
Classroom to Boardroom Part 2: So I’d always had quite a keen an industry— interest, rather, in the banking industry in its many forms, both asset management and retail banking and commercial banking, and I heard about Classroom to Boardroom through one of my best friends from school, Jordan, and he then sent me the link and got me involved in the program. And once I really heard about the program and heard about the details, I was very keen to get involved so I could start to have an impact and start to bridge that gap between myself and getting the opportunities at these firms.
Aoifinn Devitt: And Amarachi, how about yourself? How did you hear about the program? And were you one of the younger members of the program too, given you had just done your GCSEs?
Speaker C: Yeah, I think I was one of the younger members, but that wasn’t really felt because everyone was very professional and everyone treated people very equally. As for how I heard about it, my dad is well acquainted with Derek, and so he had heard about this opportunity from him. And when he brought it up to me, at first I didn’t really have much interest because unlike a few— a lot of the other people, I didn’t really know much about finance. I didn’t think it was anything that I had any right getting involved in, but when I did hear about some of the details, I thought that it would be a good opportunity and it would be a good way to enhance enhance my— some of my skills such as teamwork and problem solving. So I thought it would be a good idea to give it a shot.
Aoifinn Devitt: Great. And Sarah, were you already interested in investment management when you heard about the program, or was this a new area for you?
Speaker D: Before I heard about the programme, I didn’t know anything about investment management, nothing at all. I heard about it through my headteacher. He pitched it to a few of the students in the sixth form, and we signed up for it during the holidays.
Aoifinn Devitt: And one of the impressions that I had when I spoke with the asset management leaders was that they said at the initial part of the programme, there was a sense of almost challenge from some of the students, that there was a sense of, well, Why were they there? In a sense, like, what was their goal? What were your first impressions when you sat in that room with the asset management leaders? Why did you think you were all there? Jonathan?
Classroom to Boardroom Part 2: My first impressions was actually, it was a lot more serious than I initially thought. And there was a lot more commitment from these leaders than I initially imagined there would be. Whether that’s been because I’ve been scored in the past, where we’ve been told that leaders from these firms will be coming to speak to us, and it will be the lowest level of these firms that then— will we’d have their time to discuss with, but seeing the actual CEOs and directors there talking to us, maybe that’s just as important, how committed they are to making a difference.
Aoifinn Devitt: And Emorechi, I know that you are focused on sciences and maybe hadn’t known a lot about the investment management industry before. Do you think the industry was doing a good job in making itself accessible to students, maybe making itself seem attractive? And did your impressions change as you went through the program?
Speaker C: I think my impressions certainly did change because at the start of the program, I didn’t really— I didn’t think that anyone had really spoken to us about it at all. Like when we go to when people come into school, people weren’t really talking about that field. And at the end of at the, the end of the program, I had learnt that even though there was still a lot of work to be done, which is obviously why we were there, I thought that they had at least, in my research, they had done a few schemes and they had tried to get people more involved and it just didn’t seem to be working, which is of course where we came in. But yeah, at the beginning, I had no clue that they even had any sort of school schemes set up, any sort of internships, anything to do with universities. I was completely in the dark.
Aoifinn Devitt: And Sarah, could you walk us through maybe the kind of work you did in the program and how that differed from a traditional classroom setting?
Speaker D: The program consisted of us doing a lot of research. Putting together a slideshow— um, sorry, a presentation. I was part of the marketing team, so we did a lot of research. We had mostly how to, how to entice people into the investment management industry. So it was even insightful for me to learn how, you know, they can use social media and other platforms to engage people like myself. And I would say I definitely learned a lot more about the industry, more than I knew before. And it interested me.
Aoifinn Devitt: And in terms of the kind of collaborative work that you did, speaking with Amarachi, speaking with Jonathan, it’s clear that this program spanned quite a lot of age groups and some university students and some school students. How did you enjoy collaborating with a range of different students?
Speaker D: I would say it was difficult at first because it was virtually. So a lot more effort went into it. And there was a lot of confusion at the beginning, but once we all understood and realized the importance of the program, we came together really quickly and the communication improved. And I don’t think the age difference had much to do— it didn’t really affect anything. We all got along and we all did what we needed to do.
Aoifinn Devitt: That’s great. And Jonathan, what were your impressions of the collaborative process? Did you find that enriching?
Classroom to Boardroom Part 2: It was definitely a learning curve. Not being in the classroom and being able to see and speak to everyone physically, but I think we adapted really well and it was definitely a rich experience to just hear a multitude of perspectives on the same issue and something that we’re all dealing with and all trying to overcome. But having to obviously engage on Teams with each other and the use of emails, which are very useful professional skills that I’ve now taken with me into my internship in the banking industry, were really put to the test in that environment by having it online. So that was my experience, but it’s definitely enriching, definitely increased my workplace skills.
Aoifinn Devitt: And Amarachi, you said you’re passionate about science. Coming into this with your science skills, what did you learn and what did you enjoy most about the collaborative process?
Speaker C: I think like Jonathan said, it was definitely getting people’s perspectives, getting— because of course it spans so many age groups, it was nice hearing from so many different viewpoints and really putting everything, everyone’s work into this one project, not just one person’s idea. And I feel like at the end we really figured out a good way to find that balance. And also it was just a big team, and I felt really— I feel like it was really a comfortable working place, and the communication skills that I think we all gained from that experience are invaluable. I mean, with the— with trying to gouge people’s opinions over Zoom, it was difficult at first, but I feel like we all really adapted quickly and efficiently and managed to make something that I think made a really big difference.
Aoifinn Devitt: And Derek, just turning to you, what were some of the things you saw during that week that really most impressed you from the group, some of whom are here?
Speaker E: So thanks. So firstly, it was the first online classroom to boardroom program that we’ve run in the UK, and it was the first time that we’ve run the program with 3 different schools across GCSE, first year A-level, second year A-level, undergraduate first, second, and third year, and one graduate. So it was a very different type of programme really for us to run. And typically in education, there are so many hard stops at those respective levels that the students don’t get a chance to work together. So what really impressed me is that, was that one, they really as a group took on board the importance of the challenge. And I kind of felt that there was a sense of responsibility, which they can maybe elaborate on, to make a difference and to help these investment management firms to actually connect with young Black talent more effectively. So that really came across really well. And really— what the other part that really surprised me was that considering the students were in lockdown and many of them, and I don’t know how many will admit, were maybe getting up later than 9 o’clock in the morning, they all got in really early. Normally we start at 9 and then I was seeing calls at 8:15 and they worked really late and I know that the calls were going on in their teams into the late evening and seeing emails exchanging, being exchanged at 10:15, 10:30. So I thought that was really amazing just to see how well they did. And then the other area that I thought was very, very interesting was that they were tasked with a lot of responsibility in terms of managing confidential information. And so for a really truly authentic experience and just demonstrating the real-life nature of this, of what they’re working on, many of the firms shared confidential information in relation to their recruitment strategy plans and in some cases budgets which had to be respected by the students both in their, in terms of their research but also in their final presentation to the senior leaders on the Friday and I found it just really, the maturity of the students, I was incredibly proud by the way in which they put that together, the way they presented and you know I I can’t say that we have many surprises on the final presentation, but what I must say is that considering the time that this programme took place, the geographic mix of the students and the mixture of institutions from secondary school to university, and the difficulty of the challenge, they were exceptional at their presentation when they made that to the execs. And I’ve been really surprised about how seriously the business took the presentation and in terms of wanting to continue to work with the students. So overall, these students were exceptional and we’re very proud of what they did.
Aoifinn Devitt: And I’d like to get back to that point you made about surprise, because one of the reasons I got into finance was I was a lawyer working in corporate finance, corporate law, but wanted to demystify investment and finance for myself because it was a bit of a foreign language, a bit of a mystery. And I’ve spoken with a number of people on the 50 Faces podcast who actually started out studying medicine and only kind of fell into investment later, possibly because they never knew about it during their college days. So I’d love to ask the students, I mean, starting with Jonathan, did anything surprise you about what you learned about the world of investment and something that you weren’t expecting that you came away with as a real takeaway for that week?
Classroom to Boardroom Part 2: I’ve previously done a lot of research into the world of finance because it’s something I’ve always been interested in. I wouldn’t say I was surprised by what I heard, more the extent and the commitment to what I was hearing. So what’s the working hours and pay and all those sort of things are things you come across when you research finance and they’re all a part of the glamour of the industry. But hearing about the work with the community and the charity work, which often are just small parts of when people discuss the finance industry, but actually hearing how involved these firms are and how committed they are and how central the role of of their, their wider community engagement is to these, to the firm and industry on a wide scale surprised me. And it was also, I found it quite enticing to learn how committed they are and how they recognize that they have a responsibility and a duty and also an opportunity. And I think that’s the most important thing, and that they’re trying to make the most of that opportunity of the resources at their disposal. So that’s one thing that really surprised me that I learned and that I was really happy to hear, to be honest, and made it seem like a more rewarding career path and more rewarding than I previously thought.
Aoifinn Devitt: Absolutely. What impresses me about that program is how it’s focused on listening, listening to students and their point of view instead of executives landing in the classroom and giving their point of view. I think there’s a real focus on hearing from you, which is really quite unique. Amorachi, was there anything that surprised you positively about the industry after sitting through the program?
Speaker C: Yeah, one thing that I think really surprised me was the— in these firms, the vast amount of roles there were, because there’s— I think there there is, is a bit of a misconception that all the roles are to do with maths and money and And finance. Well, while that’s of course very important, There’s also so many different things that have nothing to do with things like maths. There’s things involving sciences, there’s things involving— like, there’s so much that you can get involved in in one of these firms, which I think— which is why I think it was even more important that we made our point, that we got our points across, and we gave these firms ideas on how to branch out, because I think knowing the vast number of roles that are available in these firms, it just makes it more accessible to everyone as opposed to just a select group of people. So, yeah, I think the amount of different things you can do in this world is what really impressed me.
Aoifinn Devitt: And Sarah, what was surprising to you after sitting through the week with the investment management executives.
Speaker D: What was surprising to me is the amount of firms that actually do investment management. Never hearing of it before, I was shocked to find that there are so many large firms as well that we see every day, but I never had a clue what they did.
Aoifinn Devitt: There were also some critical takeaways as students made the transition from academic work to producing work in the professional world in a collaborative process. Let’s hear from Jonathan.
Classroom to Boardroom Part 2: So what I mean by the value of imperfection is I think something that we’re so tailored towards at school is not really to send something out until it’s complete and done to the best of your ability. It’s something we’re geared towards, especially when you have deadlines, you have to make sure everything’s perfect before you send it out at the deadline, and that’s essentially your one shot, and then it’s marked and it’s graded. What I really learned, I actually struggled at first on during this programme to get out of, and that was actually in a collaborative, in a group effort, is sometimes more useful to send your incomplete work but with an explanation of where the work is at, what’s been completed, what’s yet to be completed, and so they can understand with your issues and the problems you’re facing to get your work completed and where it’s meant to go. And in the presentation, what that can do is really help the people putting together the presentation to understand where we are as a group and to also provide their own ideas and input as to how you can complete the work more efficiently. And I think it was hard not to be— it was definitely difficult at first to send out incomplete work and work I knew was imperfect and still needed more time because there was a judgmental aspect to it of this isn’t obviously the best I can do. ‘And people are going to see this and judge me on it.’ But I feel like we were all very open and honest with each other, and the feedback I was given wasn’t negative and wasn’t an insult, but instead it was constructive in order to really uplift the whole— the team as a whole. And so just getting used to that and getting to the motions of sending that incomplete work so people have an understanding of where the presentation’s at was something I found really useful, something again, I’m going to take forward with me.
Aoifinn Devitt: Derek also felt that the programme filled a vital gap for the students who were no longer able to complete exams in some cases due to the lockdowns. It provided therefore some kind of a replacement for that loss.
Speaker E: So I just think that one of the things that I really think was important about the programme is that many of the young people have spoken about not having the opportunity to take an exam And I felt that what was really good about this program is that rather than taking an exam based on coursework and what you’ve studied, they went through this experiential journey where they learned about an industry, they worked with people they didn’t know on a real business challenge, and then they had the highest form of assessment possible, not by an examination board, but by the CEOs of some of the leading global businesses in the investment management industry. And all I can say, and judging by the feedback from the CEOs, is that each and every one of them, and collectively as a group, passed with a distinction. And I’m super proud of what they’ve done. And also the biggest thing they can do now and this is the industry, is implementing the ideas and which we’re seeing. So, you know, these young people are paying it forward and I look forward to seeing them leading some of these investment management firms and other types of firms over the coming years.
Aoifinn Devitt: And one of the points I wanted to ask about, and maybe Derek can weigh in here, is part of the appeal of this program was it’s appealing directly to Black youth. And clearly there is a strong momentum within investment management now to diversify the representation from all ethnicities, but particularly Black youth. And we’ve seen programs such as 100 Black Interns now grow to 10,000 Black interns over the course of just a few short months. What do you think the financial industry will have to do to make its drive for diversity successful? Do you think it’s on the right track?
Speaker E: So if I— so essentially, I left the city 17 years ago, and there were very few Black representatives within the City of London across investment banking and private banking, which is where I was. And I found it when I had the initial conversation, I was very surprised that having left the industry 17 years ago, not much progress had been made despite having a whole industry around diversity and putting a lot of money into it. So I think the way forward has been this program in terms of one of the ways that post the murder of George Floyd the industry is opening up its eyes to actually look at how we can address the imbalance and the lack of Black talent. And as you said, there are, you know, 100 Black interns now, 10,000 Black interns, and there are other organizations which are targeting and working in this area. But what I think is really the difference now is that, one, the industry are looking to work with a wider range of partners to change it. And also some of the ideas that the students have given to the firms, and considering the size of some of the firms, that some of those ideas are going to be implemented, and I think they’re going to also make a difference. So I’m really, I’m positive that this program and others this year, we’re going to see a sea change in terms of the number of of young Black people who come into the industry, but that really boils down to the action that the CEOs and the commitment that the CEOs are going to take to make a difference. And I think that by having 9 CEOs and a global lead of HR on that final presentation, and in light of what they’ve gone on to do post the summer program, there is a real commitment by the industry to, to widen and become more diverse.
Aoifinn Devitt: And just speaking, going over to the students, and Jonathan, so you’ve covered this industry, you’ve been aware of it for some time. Are you encouraged by the changes you see, and how important is it to you that this industry continue to diversify?
Classroom to Boardroom Part 2: So not only have I studied and been aware of this industry, I’m now actively involved in this industry. I’m on a year-long placement at a bank in the City, So one thing I’ve noticed in the culture, one thing that’s been apparent, is the training that’s going on in terms of unconscious biases and also just diversity on such a wide scale. It’s not necessarily just aimed at supporting Black people but other minorities that have been overlooked historically in the industry, such as women and other ethnic minorities. So What I’m noticing, one thing I’m finding really encouraging, is the actions that’s been taken, the training that’s been done, and essentially the millions have been spent to try and rectify this issue. Although it’s not something that you can throw— just throw money at and hope to solve, it does seem to be a real commitment and real action that’s been taken to try and rectify the issue.
Speaker C: And Amarachi, Yeah, yeah, I think there’s a few things that have made me feel a lot more positively about this industry, like the changes in things such as the communities of minorities that they started to establish. I can’t remember exactly which firm, but there are some firms that would have sessions with their minority employees where they would talk about their issues. And I feel like that’s a really enriching and a good thing to do. And there was just a plethora of things really. There was the 100 Black Interns scheme that another firm did, which I think was really good, and I just, I think the fact that they’re trying to take these steps in the right direction is just a very promising thing to see.
Aoifinn Devitt: And also programs like mentorship, I suppose, and more outreach to a wider range of universities, perhaps as well. And equally, a number of internship programs I’ve seen that are now recruiting directly from high school, not simply from universities in sort of an apprenticeship program, which I think is another way of increasing the diversity and richness of a talent pool. Sarah, do you have any thoughts on what the industry is doing now and maybe how it’s improving? And how it could do better?
Speaker D: Yes, I’ve seen a lot of actual firsthand improvements. For example, the firm that I did my work experience with, they, they held like, a, an internal meeting program with a lot of partners in their firm, and I was a panelist. So we spoke about how they could improve diversity and make Black people more comfortable in the workplace. And just to see firsthand the effects of everything that we’ve done, it made me really happy to see that, you know, they’re taking an initiative and actually trying. And I know that other firms have also put things in place, for example, the 100 Black Interns, and it shows growth. And hopefully other firms will take the same initiative and try to improve diversity, include more Black people in their workforce.
Aoifinn Devitt: Great, and we’re now, we’re at the end of a very tumultuous 2020. Many of us looking to the new year with some hope, hopefully some optimism. What does the future hold for each of you? Maybe starting with Jonathan, you said you’re already in a placement. Can you speak about where you hope your career will go from here?
Classroom to Boardroom Part 2: So in terms of the immediate future, it’ll be completing this placement and then going back to university. For my final year. I’ve been doing my utmost to make the most of that and try and get the best mark possible. And then I think it’s going to be for me diving headfirst into the industry, so almost a scattershot of applications to numerous firms in both asset management and other banks, other financial institutions.
Aoifinn Devitt: And Amarachi, what are you currently focusing on?
Speaker C: Well, currently my biggest focus is on my schoolwork and on my grades because I feel like they have the power to get me where I really want to be. And hopefully I can study what I want to at university. But I’m also, because of this program, I’ve also developed a newfound passion for these kinds of schemes in all sorts of industries. What I want to do is veterinary medicine, and there’s a big issue with diversity in that as well. And so if I was ever to break into that kind of course, I would probably dedicate a lot of my time to talks, maybe at primary schools and secondary schools in more diverse areas, to try and encourage more Black children to to maybe take the chance and go for a more scientific, maybe vet-related course, because I feel like it’s, it’s something that can be improved on there as well.
Aoifinn Devitt: It’s so true. I’ve always been a big believer in the phrase that you can’t be what you can’t see. And it’s so important to actually represent and to show students and aspiring professionals just what the professions look like. And can look like so that they can see themselves in these roles. Sarah, what about you?
Speaker D: The near future, I am looking forward to my A-level exams. I’m hoping that they’re not cancelled like they were last year because I really do want to see all of my hard work being put to use. I want to see the outcome of it. Next year, I will be going to university, hopefully to study economics and management. Right now I’m just waiting to see any offers. I haven’t sent off my UCAS, but I’m about to. Um, I have a lot of ideas and industries that I’m interested in, so I feel like what I need to do in the near future is to continue my research and expand my knowledge and to find what I’m most interested in and what’s best suited to me. So that’s what I’ll be spending most of my time doing as of now. And revising and doing stuff for my A-level exams.
Aoifinn Devitt: Well, I certainly hope for your sake that they are held as well. Um, I know that you were also, um, quite lucky in getting work experience after the Classroom to Boardroom program. Can you just tell us briefly about that?
Speaker D: Yeah, so after the program, because in the call where we presented all of the CEOs and executives, their names were there, so I added them on LinkedIn LinkedIn, found their emails. So I just emailed everyone because, you know, you have to ask to get what you want. So, um, the CEO of Mercer did get back to me. So I did a virtual work experience with Mercer, and I felt, I felt proud because I needed a work experience, and obviously lockdown made that unable to happen. Some people had work experience that they could do virtually, but during the time where I was meant to find work experience, I didn’t. So I felt kind of lucky, gifted, that I was able to be able to do the work experience with Mercer, considering they’re such a huge firm as well.
Aoifinn Devitt: That’s fantastic. Well, it’s been really wonderful to speak with each of you. I do believe the future is very bright indeed. And what I’m very encouraged by is how each of you has been motivated from this experience to take pass it on, essentially, to take this now to the next generation and ensure that you can pass on some of the good skills that you learned. Well, thank you so much to Jonathan Amarachi, Sarah, and Derek for providing your insights here. As I said, I do believe the future is very bright indeed, and thank you for all of the positivity and encouragement that you’re giving here to the next generation. I’m Aoifinn Devitt. Thank you for listening to the 50 Faces breakout room. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as investment advice, and all views are personal and should not be attributed to the organizations and affiliations of the host or any guest.
Aoifinn Devitt: We would like to thank the International Business of Federated Hermes for providing production support for this episode. Welcome to the second of our 50 Faces breakout rooms focused on the Classroom to Boardroom program, a program that was the brainchild of Derek Brown of Entrepreneurs in Action and Mitesh Seth of Reddington. And was designed as a way to tackle underrepresentation of Black talent in the investment management industry. The program held online during the summer of 2020, brought a cross-section of Black youth across high school and college programs in the UK together with asset management executives and aimed to provide a thorough introduction to the asset management industry, as well as to hear directly from Black youth about some of the challenges that they face. In the first breakout room, we heard from the asset managers. Now we want to hear from the students about their experience. I’m joined here by Jonathan, Amarachi, and Sarah, all of whom participated in the Summer Programme. I’m also joined by Derek Brown. Over to you, Jonathan.
Classroom to Boardroom Part 2: So I’m studying economics at Lancaster University. I’m currently, I’m doing a year-long placement, and I’ll be going back next year in September to do my final year of university.
Speaker C: Amarachi, Hi, my name’s Amarachi and I am currently in sixth form studying A-level Chemistry, Biology, and Maths, and one day I hope to go to Cambridge University to study Veterinary Medicine.
Aoifinn Devitt: And Sarah.
Speaker D: Good afternoon everyone, my name is Sarah. I’m currently in my second year of sixth form studying Economics, Psychology, and Media. I’ll be going to uni next year, hopefully to study Economics and Management.
Aoifinn Devitt: Great. So 3 of you are clearly at a critical stage in terms of your education. Can you just tell us what the lockdown experience was like for you and how it disrupted your education starting in March of last year? I’ll just start with Amarachi, that question.
Speaker C: Yeah, the, the whole lockdown announcement, at first it was a big shock and it it was, was hard to know that there were some friends that I was probably never going to see for a very long time because they might have been moving schools and we didn’t really have a proper chance to say goodbye. And then with education, I was fortunate that I was in Year 11 at the time, and so I had my GCSE exams coming up. So there was a lot of anxiety to start off with that we didn’t know what our grades were going to be. We knew that the exams weren’t happening, so we weren’t sure how our hard work was going to be reflected in our grades. There was a good few months of anxiety and worrying. And a lot of last-minute assessments from our teachers, and a lot of lockdown tasks that we had to do that our teachers could use to try and assess us. And when we heard about what had happened on A-level results day, it made that anxiety worse because we knew some people were getting downgraded just because of their school, or because of various, various factors. So, in terms of actual education, there wasn’t much more we had to learn, so that was fortunate, but I think the worry about our results, our GCSE results, was probably the worst part of the whole lockdown experience.
Aoifinn Devitt: Jonathan?
Classroom to Boardroom Part 2: The summer was quite hectic, not knowing about having my end-of-year exams at university, with some exams being cancelled, some being moved online. And that made my revision schedule quite difficult and quite hard. And then obviously then joining a team on my placement and trying to interact with that team but virtually was quite difficult. Doing my learnings of the industry and of my role was also quite difficult virtually, but yeah.
Aoifinn Devitt: Sarah.
Speaker D: The lockdown was quite a shock, but as I was in my first year of A-levels we kind of had to stop. We had to stop, but we started doing online learning literally the next week after the lockdown had happened, so we didn’t miss out on much. But I would say that learning at home is very different from learning in school. It requires a lot more effort and internal motivation. Um, we did miss some exams we had, um, because at A-level you have to do AS exams so we weren’t able to do our AS exams. Our teachers had to base our predicted grades off of classwork, and when we recently came back to Year 2, um, A-level Year 2, we had to do some assessments late, really late, which gave us our predicted grades. And I’ll say that it kind of halted the process of applying for universities. Like, I only just recently finished my UCAS application and I feel like it should have been finished quite a while ago. Other than that, the lockdown hasn’t— I wouldn’t say it’s affected me too, too much because it’s kind of helped me. I’ve learned how to type faster. I know how to use a computer better. So there’s some positives to it.
Aoifinn Devitt: That’s fantastic. And then Derek, then maybe just remind us of the origins of the Classroom to Boardroom programme.
Speaker E: Classroom to Boardroom, we started Classroom to Boardroom programme about 17 years ago, 16, 17 years ago. Ago, Years and it was as an opportunity for students to get that chance to work on real business challenges and also for schools to connect with business in a different way. And it also acted as a bridge for employers and businesses to connect with students in a way they hadn’t done previously. So the program really revolves around students working on real business challenges that businesses are facing and then giving the students that opportunity to get that real-life business experience, which culminates with a presentation to senior leaders in the boardroom. So hence the start in the classroom, end up in the boardroom equals classroom to boardroom.
Aoifinn Devitt: And I’d love to now move to the students to hear how they heard about that program, and maybe we can start with Jonathan. Jonathan, how did you hear about the Classroom to Boardroom program, and were you already interested in the investment management industry?
Classroom to Boardroom Part 2: So I’d always had quite a keen an industry— interest, rather, in the banking industry in its many forms, both asset management and retail banking and commercial banking, and I heard about Classroom to Boardroom through one of my best friends from school, Jordan, and he then sent me the link and got me involved in the program. And once I really heard about the program and heard about the details, I was very keen to get involved so I could start to have an impact and start to bridge that gap between myself and getting the opportunities at these firms.
Aoifinn Devitt: And Amarachi, how about yourself? How did you hear about the program? And were you one of the younger members of the program too, given you had just done your GCSEs?
Speaker C: Yeah, I think I was one of the younger members, but that wasn’t really felt because everyone was very professional and everyone treated people very equally. As for how I heard about it, my dad is well acquainted with Derek, and so he had heard about this opportunity from him. And when he brought it up to me, at first I didn’t really have much interest because unlike a few— a lot of the other people, I didn’t really know much about finance. I didn’t think it was anything that I had any right getting involved in, but when I did hear about some of the details, I thought that it would be a good opportunity and it would be a good way to enhance enhance my— some of my skills such as teamwork and problem solving. So I thought it would be a good idea to give it a shot.
Aoifinn Devitt: Great. And Sarah, were you already interested in investment management when you heard about the program, or was this a new area for you?
Speaker D: Before I heard about the programme, I didn’t know anything about investment management, nothing at all. I heard about it through my headteacher. He pitched it to a few of the students in the sixth form, and we signed up for it during the holidays.
Aoifinn Devitt: And one of the impressions that I had when I spoke with the asset management leaders was that they said at the initial part of the programme, there was a sense of almost challenge from some of the students, that there was a sense of, well, Why were they there? In a sense, like, what was their goal? What were your first impressions when you sat in that room with the asset management leaders? Why did you think you were all there? Jonathan?
Classroom to Boardroom Part 2: My first impressions was actually, it was a lot more serious than I initially thought. And there was a lot more commitment from these leaders than I initially imagined there would be. Whether that’s been because I’ve been scored in the past, where we’ve been told that leaders from these firms will be coming to speak to us, and it will be the lowest level of these firms that then— will we’d have their time to discuss with, but seeing the actual CEOs and directors there talking to us, maybe that’s just as important, how committed they are to making a difference.
Aoifinn Devitt: And Emorechi, I know that you are focused on sciences and maybe hadn’t known a lot about the investment management industry before. Do you think the industry was doing a good job in making itself accessible to students, maybe making itself seem attractive? And did your impressions change as you went through the program?
Speaker C: I think my impressions certainly did change because at the start of the program, I didn’t really— I didn’t think that anyone had really spoken to us about it at all. Like when we go to when people come into school, people weren’t really talking about that field. And at the end of at the, the end of the program, I had learnt that even though there was still a lot of work to be done, which is obviously why we were there, I thought that they had at least, in my research, they had done a few schemes and they had tried to get people more involved and it just didn’t seem to be working, which is of course where we came in. But yeah, at the beginning, I had no clue that they even had any sort of school schemes set up, any sort of internships, anything to do with universities. I was completely in the dark.
Aoifinn Devitt: And Sarah, could you walk us through maybe the kind of work you did in the program and how that differed from a traditional classroom setting?
Speaker D: The program consisted of us doing a lot of research. Putting together a slideshow— um, sorry, a presentation. I was part of the marketing team, so we did a lot of research. We had mostly how to, how to entice people into the investment management industry. So it was even insightful for me to learn how, you know, they can use social media and other platforms to engage people like myself. And I would say I definitely learned a lot more about the industry, more than I knew before. And it interested me.
Aoifinn Devitt: And in terms of the kind of collaborative work that you did, speaking with Amarachi, speaking with Jonathan, it’s clear that this program spanned quite a lot of age groups and some university students and some school students. How did you enjoy collaborating with a range of different students?
Speaker D: I would say it was difficult at first because it was virtually. So a lot more effort went into it. And there was a lot of confusion at the beginning, but once we all understood and realized the importance of the program, we came together really quickly and the communication improved. And I don’t think the age difference had much to do— it didn’t really affect anything. We all got along and we all did what we needed to do.
Aoifinn Devitt: That’s great. And Jonathan, what were your impressions of the collaborative process? Did you find that enriching?
Classroom to Boardroom Part 2: It was definitely a learning curve. Not being in the classroom and being able to see and speak to everyone physically, but I think we adapted really well and it was definitely a rich experience to just hear a multitude of perspectives on the same issue and something that we’re all dealing with and all trying to overcome. But having to obviously engage on Teams with each other and the use of emails, which are very useful professional skills that I’ve now taken with me into my internship in the banking industry, were really put to the test in that environment by having it online. So that was my experience, but it’s definitely enriching, definitely increased my workplace skills.
Aoifinn Devitt: And Amarachi, you said you’re passionate about science. Coming into this with your science skills, what did you learn and what did you enjoy most about the collaborative process?
Speaker C: I think like Jonathan said, it was definitely getting people’s perspectives, getting— because of course it spans so many age groups, it was nice hearing from so many different viewpoints and really putting everything, everyone’s work into this one project, not just one person’s idea. And I feel like at the end we really figured out a good way to find that balance. And also it was just a big team, and I felt really— I feel like it was really a comfortable working place, and the communication skills that I think we all gained from that experience are invaluable. I mean, with the— with trying to gouge people’s opinions over Zoom, it was difficult at first, but I feel like we all really adapted quickly and efficiently and managed to make something that I think made a really big difference.
Aoifinn Devitt: And Derek, just turning to you, what were some of the things you saw during that week that really most impressed you from the group, some of whom are here?
Speaker E: So thanks. So firstly, it was the first online classroom to boardroom program that we’ve run in the UK, and it was the first time that we’ve run the program with 3 different schools across GCSE, first year A-level, second year A-level, undergraduate first, second, and third year, and one graduate. So it was a very different type of programme really for us to run. And typically in education, there are so many hard stops at those respective levels that the students don’t get a chance to work together. So what really impressed me is that, was that one, they really as a group took on board the importance of the challenge. And I kind of felt that there was a sense of responsibility, which they can maybe elaborate on, to make a difference and to help these investment management firms to actually connect with young Black talent more effectively. So that really came across really well. And really— what the other part that really surprised me was that considering the students were in lockdown and many of them, and I don’t know how many will admit, were maybe getting up later than 9 o’clock in the morning, they all got in really early. Normally we start at 9 and then I was seeing calls at 8:15 and they worked really late and I know that the calls were going on in their teams into the late evening and seeing emails exchanging, being exchanged at 10:15, 10:30. So I thought that was really amazing just to see how well they did. And then the other area that I thought was very, very interesting was that they were tasked with a lot of responsibility in terms of managing confidential information. And so for a really truly authentic experience and just demonstrating the real-life nature of this, of what they’re working on, many of the firms shared confidential information in relation to their recruitment strategy plans and in some cases budgets which had to be respected by the students both in their, in terms of their research but also in their final presentation to the senior leaders on the Friday and I found it just really, the maturity of the students, I was incredibly proud by the way in which they put that together, the way they presented and you know I I can’t say that we have many surprises on the final presentation, but what I must say is that considering the time that this programme took place, the geographic mix of the students and the mixture of institutions from secondary school to university, and the difficulty of the challenge, they were exceptional at their presentation when they made that to the execs. And I’ve been really surprised about how seriously the business took the presentation and in terms of wanting to continue to work with the students. So overall, these students were exceptional and we’re very proud of what they did.
Aoifinn Devitt: And I’d like to get back to that point you made about surprise, because one of the reasons I got into finance was I was a lawyer working in corporate finance, corporate law, but wanted to demystify investment and finance for myself because it was a bit of a foreign language, a bit of a mystery. And I’ve spoken with a number of people on the 50 Faces podcast who actually started out studying medicine and only kind of fell into investment later, possibly because they never knew about it during their college days. So I’d love to ask the students, I mean, starting with Jonathan, did anything surprise you about what you learned about the world of investment and something that you weren’t expecting that you came away with as a real takeaway for that week?
Classroom to Boardroom Part 2: I’ve previously done a lot of research into the world of finance because it’s something I’ve always been interested in. I wouldn’t say I was surprised by what I heard, more the extent and the commitment to what I was hearing. So what’s the working hours and pay and all those sort of things are things you come across when you research finance and they’re all a part of the glamour of the industry. But hearing about the work with the community and the charity work, which often are just small parts of when people discuss the finance industry, but actually hearing how involved these firms are and how committed they are and how central the role of of their, their wider community engagement is to these, to the firm and industry on a wide scale surprised me. And it was also, I found it quite enticing to learn how committed they are and how they recognize that they have a responsibility and a duty and also an opportunity. And I think that’s the most important thing, and that they’re trying to make the most of that opportunity of the resources at their disposal. So that’s one thing that really surprised me that I learned and that I was really happy to hear, to be honest, and made it seem like a more rewarding career path and more rewarding than I previously thought.
Aoifinn Devitt: Absolutely. What impresses me about that program is how it’s focused on listening, listening to students and their point of view instead of executives landing in the classroom and giving their point of view. I think there’s a real focus on hearing from you, which is really quite unique. Amorachi, was there anything that surprised you positively about the industry after sitting through the program?
Speaker C: Yeah, one thing that I think really surprised me was the— in these firms, the vast amount of roles there were, because there’s— I think there there is, is a bit of a misconception that all the roles are to do with maths and money and And finance. Well, while that’s of course very important, There’s also so many different things that have nothing to do with things like maths. There’s things involving sciences, there’s things involving— like, there’s so much that you can get involved in in one of these firms, which I think— which is why I think it was even more important that we made our point, that we got our points across, and we gave these firms ideas on how to branch out, because I think knowing the vast number of roles that are available in these firms, it just makes it more accessible to everyone as opposed to just a select group of people. So, yeah, I think the amount of different things you can do in this world is what really impressed me.
Aoifinn Devitt: And Sarah, what was surprising to you after sitting through the week with the investment management executives.
Speaker D: What was surprising to me is the amount of firms that actually do investment management. Never hearing of it before, I was shocked to find that there are so many large firms as well that we see every day, but I never had a clue what they did.
Aoifinn Devitt: There were also some critical takeaways as students made the transition from academic work to producing work in the professional world in a collaborative process. Let’s hear from Jonathan.
Classroom to Boardroom Part 2: So what I mean by the value of imperfection is I think something that we’re so tailored towards at school is not really to send something out until it’s complete and done to the best of your ability. It’s something we’re geared towards, especially when you have deadlines, you have to make sure everything’s perfect before you send it out at the deadline, and that’s essentially your one shot, and then it’s marked and it’s graded. What I really learned, I actually struggled at first on during this programme to get out of, and that was actually in a collaborative, in a group effort, is sometimes more useful to send your incomplete work but with an explanation of where the work is at, what’s been completed, what’s yet to be completed, and so they can understand with your issues and the problems you’re facing to get your work completed and where it’s meant to go. And in the presentation, what that can do is really help the people putting together the presentation to understand where we are as a group and to also provide their own ideas and input as to how you can complete the work more efficiently. And I think it was hard not to be— it was definitely difficult at first to send out incomplete work and work I knew was imperfect and still needed more time because there was a judgmental aspect to it of this isn’t obviously the best I can do. ‘And people are going to see this and judge me on it.’ But I feel like we were all very open and honest with each other, and the feedback I was given wasn’t negative and wasn’t an insult, but instead it was constructive in order to really uplift the whole— the team as a whole. And so just getting used to that and getting to the motions of sending that incomplete work so people have an understanding of where the presentation’s at was something I found really useful, something again, I’m going to take forward with me.
Aoifinn Devitt: Derek also felt that the programme filled a vital gap for the students who were no longer able to complete exams in some cases due to the lockdowns. It provided therefore some kind of a replacement for that loss.
Speaker E: So I just think that one of the things that I really think was important about the programme is that many of the young people have spoken about not having the opportunity to take an exam And I felt that what was really good about this program is that rather than taking an exam based on coursework and what you’ve studied, they went through this experiential journey where they learned about an industry, they worked with people they didn’t know on a real business challenge, and then they had the highest form of assessment possible, not by an examination board, but by the CEOs of some of the leading global businesses in the investment management industry. And all I can say, and judging by the feedback from the CEOs, is that each and every one of them, and collectively as a group, passed with a distinction. And I’m super proud of what they’ve done. And also the biggest thing they can do now and this is the industry, is implementing the ideas and which we’re seeing. So, you know, these young people are paying it forward and I look forward to seeing them leading some of these investment management firms and other types of firms over the coming years.
Aoifinn Devitt: And one of the points I wanted to ask about, and maybe Derek can weigh in here, is part of the appeal of this program was it’s appealing directly to Black youth. And clearly there is a strong momentum within investment management now to diversify the representation from all ethnicities, but particularly Black youth. And we’ve seen programs such as 100 Black Interns now grow to 10,000 Black interns over the course of just a few short months. What do you think the financial industry will have to do to make its drive for diversity successful? Do you think it’s on the right track?
Speaker E: So if I— so essentially, I left the city 17 years ago, and there were very few Black representatives within the City of London across investment banking and private banking, which is where I was. And I found it when I had the initial conversation, I was very surprised that having left the industry 17 years ago, not much progress had been made despite having a whole industry around diversity and putting a lot of money into it. So I think the way forward has been this program in terms of one of the ways that post the murder of George Floyd the industry is opening up its eyes to actually look at how we can address the imbalance and the lack of Black talent. And as you said, there are, you know, 100 Black interns now, 10,000 Black interns, and there are other organizations which are targeting and working in this area. But what I think is really the difference now is that, one, the industry are looking to work with a wider range of partners to change it. And also some of the ideas that the students have given to the firms, and considering the size of some of the firms, that some of those ideas are going to be implemented, and I think they’re going to also make a difference. So I’m really, I’m positive that this program and others this year, we’re going to see a sea change in terms of the number of of young Black people who come into the industry, but that really boils down to the action that the CEOs and the commitment that the CEOs are going to take to make a difference. And I think that by having 9 CEOs and a global lead of HR on that final presentation, and in light of what they’ve gone on to do post the summer program, there is a real commitment by the industry to, to widen and become more diverse.
Aoifinn Devitt: And just speaking, going over to the students, and Jonathan, so you’ve covered this industry, you’ve been aware of it for some time. Are you encouraged by the changes you see, and how important is it to you that this industry continue to diversify?
Classroom to Boardroom Part 2: So not only have I studied and been aware of this industry, I’m now actively involved in this industry. I’m on a year-long placement at a bank in the City, So one thing I’ve noticed in the culture, one thing that’s been apparent, is the training that’s going on in terms of unconscious biases and also just diversity on such a wide scale. It’s not necessarily just aimed at supporting Black people but other minorities that have been overlooked historically in the industry, such as women and other ethnic minorities. So What I’m noticing, one thing I’m finding really encouraging, is the actions that’s been taken, the training that’s been done, and essentially the millions have been spent to try and rectify this issue. Although it’s not something that you can throw— just throw money at and hope to solve, it does seem to be a real commitment and real action that’s been taken to try and rectify the issue.
Speaker C: And Amarachi, Yeah, yeah, I think there’s a few things that have made me feel a lot more positively about this industry, like the changes in things such as the communities of minorities that they started to establish. I can’t remember exactly which firm, but there are some firms that would have sessions with their minority employees where they would talk about their issues. And I feel like that’s a really enriching and a good thing to do. And there was just a plethora of things really. There was the 100 Black Interns scheme that another firm did, which I think was really good, and I just, I think the fact that they’re trying to take these steps in the right direction is just a very promising thing to see.
Aoifinn Devitt: And also programs like mentorship, I suppose, and more outreach to a wider range of universities, perhaps as well. And equally, a number of internship programs I’ve seen that are now recruiting directly from high school, not simply from universities in sort of an apprenticeship program, which I think is another way of increasing the diversity and richness of a talent pool. Sarah, do you have any thoughts on what the industry is doing now and maybe how it’s improving? And how it could do better?
Speaker D: Yes, I’ve seen a lot of actual firsthand improvements. For example, the firm that I did my work experience with, they, they held like, a, an internal meeting program with a lot of partners in their firm, and I was a panelist. So we spoke about how they could improve diversity and make Black people more comfortable in the workplace. And just to see firsthand the effects of everything that we’ve done, it made me really happy to see that, you know, they’re taking an initiative and actually trying. And I know that other firms have also put things in place, for example, the 100 Black Interns, and it shows growth. And hopefully other firms will take the same initiative and try to improve diversity, include more Black people in their workforce.
Aoifinn Devitt: Great, and we’re now, we’re at the end of a very tumultuous 2020. Many of us looking to the new year with some hope, hopefully some optimism. What does the future hold for each of you? Maybe starting with Jonathan, you said you’re already in a placement. Can you speak about where you hope your career will go from here?
Classroom to Boardroom Part 2: So in terms of the immediate future, it’ll be completing this placement and then going back to university. For my final year. I’ve been doing my utmost to make the most of that and try and get the best mark possible. And then I think it’s going to be for me diving headfirst into the industry, so almost a scattershot of applications to numerous firms in both asset management and other banks, other financial institutions.
Aoifinn Devitt: And Amarachi, what are you currently focusing on?
Speaker C: Well, currently my biggest focus is on my schoolwork and on my grades because I feel like they have the power to get me where I really want to be. And hopefully I can study what I want to at university. But I’m also, because of this program, I’ve also developed a newfound passion for these kinds of schemes in all sorts of industries. What I want to do is veterinary medicine, and there’s a big issue with diversity in that as well. And so if I was ever to break into that kind of course, I would probably dedicate a lot of my time to talks, maybe at primary schools and secondary schools in more diverse areas, to try and encourage more Black children to to maybe take the chance and go for a more scientific, maybe vet-related course, because I feel like it’s, it’s something that can be improved on there as well.
Aoifinn Devitt: It’s so true. I’ve always been a big believer in the phrase that you can’t be what you can’t see. And it’s so important to actually represent and to show students and aspiring professionals just what the professions look like. And can look like so that they can see themselves in these roles. Sarah, what about you?
Speaker D: The near future, I am looking forward to my A-level exams. I’m hoping that they’re not cancelled like they were last year because I really do want to see all of my hard work being put to use. I want to see the outcome of it. Next year, I will be going to university, hopefully to study economics and management. Right now I’m just waiting to see any offers. I haven’t sent off my UCAS, but I’m about to. Um, I have a lot of ideas and industries that I’m interested in, so I feel like what I need to do in the near future is to continue my research and expand my knowledge and to find what I’m most interested in and what’s best suited to me. So that’s what I’ll be spending most of my time doing as of now. And revising and doing stuff for my A-level exams.
Aoifinn Devitt: Well, I certainly hope for your sake that they are held as well. Um, I know that you were also, um, quite lucky in getting work experience after the Classroom to Boardroom program. Can you just tell us briefly about that?
Speaker D: Yeah, so after the program, because in the call where we presented all of the CEOs and executives, their names were there, so I added them on LinkedIn LinkedIn, found their emails. So I just emailed everyone because, you know, you have to ask to get what you want. So, um, the CEO of Mercer did get back to me. So I did a virtual work experience with Mercer, and I felt, I felt proud because I needed a work experience, and obviously lockdown made that unable to happen. Some people had work experience that they could do virtually, but during the time where I was meant to find work experience, I didn’t. So I felt kind of lucky, gifted, that I was able to be able to do the work experience with Mercer, considering they’re such a huge firm as well.
Aoifinn Devitt: That’s fantastic. Well, it’s been really wonderful to speak with each of you. I do believe the future is very bright indeed. And what I’m very encouraged by is how each of you has been motivated from this experience to take pass it on, essentially, to take this now to the next generation and ensure that you can pass on some of the good skills that you learned. Well, thank you so much to Jonathan Amarachi, Sarah, and Derek for providing your insights here. As I said, I do believe the future is very bright indeed, and thank you for all of the positivity and encouragement that you’re giving here to the next generation. I’m Aoifinn Devitt. Thank you for listening to the 50 Faces breakout room. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as investment advice, and all views are personal and should not be attributed to the organizations and affiliations of the host or any guest.
