Aoifinn Devitt: This podcast is brought to you by the kind support of the Active Share Podcast. What does a two-time world-winning coach and MLB baseball team owner, top chef, and luxury fashion designer have in common? They’ve all been featured on the Active Share Podcast. If you’re seeking the less obvious and are curious about the ever-changing world and how it affects investing, the Active Share Podcast is for you. Hear thought-provoking conversations with thought leaders, company executives, and William Blair Investment Management’s own analysts and portfolio managers as they share unique perspectives on investing in a world that’s always evolving. Download the Active Share podcast on iTunes, Spotify, Google, Stitcher, and TuneIn.
Tremaine Wills: I made a commitment to myself that no matter how tough it was, no matter how challenging it was, there was a reason why I had to do this. And every time I think about giving up and shifting to do something that’s easier, I remember that feeling of being the only one in my first employer, and it was not a safe space for me to be myself. And so I imagined that It is difficult for clients to fully show up as themselves with some advisors if they don’t feel that same safety, right? So I think that having advisors who look like you, and even though they might not have the same experiences, that can identify with what you may be experiencing, helps shape the way you receive information.
Aoifinn Devitt: I’m Aoifinn Devitt, and welcome to the 50 Faces Podcast, a podcast committed to revealing the richness and diversity of the world of investment by focusing on its people and their stories. I’m joined today by Tremaine Wills, who’s the founder and chief operating officer of Mind Over Money, which provides financial planning advice and manages investment portfolios to to help clients meet their financial goals. She formerly spent time as an investment advisor representative, and from 2015 to 2019, worked as a math teacher, initially for Teach for America. Based in Virginia, she is passionate about increasing financial literacy for the Black community in particular. Welcome, Tremaine. Thanks for joining me today.
Tremaine Wills: Thank you so much for having me.
Aoifinn Devitt: Well, let’s start with where you grew up, what you studied, and how you came to enter the world of giving investment advice.
Tremaine Wills: Oh man, so I am from Newport News, Virginia, an area in southern Hampton Roads. If you’re familiar with the Virginia Beach area, it’s a city in that vicinity. I grew up in a single-parent household. Neither of my parents went to college, and so education was something that was incredibly important and kind of instilled in us. So I pushed myself really hard in education. I went through the International Baccalaureate program and I was in advanced classes, like, as long as I can remember. But after I finished that program and got the IB diploma, I went to Hampton University on a full scholarship. And I had no idea what I was doing. There were not role models to kind of say, hey, choose this major, or for me to kind of see what path to take Honestly, before I got to college, that whole senior year, I thought I was going to go into, like, cosmetology because one of the first things I learned how to do to make money was to braid hair. And so that’s kind of the path that I saw for myself. But once it became real that I could possibly go to college and my parents wouldn’t have to pay for it, I was like, oh, wow, there is a different path that I’m about to take that I didn’t really see happening for me. And so I went to Hampton. My major was undeclared. I didn’t know what I was going to do. So I asked some people, I was like, hey, what’s the major that people get into to make money? Because that’s really all I knew is that I needed to go to school and I needed to graduate and I had to make money. And everyone said business. So that’s the major I went into. I went into the MBA program at Hampton. There’s a 5-year accelerated program. So that’s what I went into to kind of study and learn what business was all about. And so I quickly realized that this was definitely a space that I wanted to learn and really understand what drove companies and just understanding like the inner workings. And so when I graduated, our program had a really excellent placement rate. We have something like a 99% graduation placement rate. And so I had like 6 offers. And one of the things that really pushed me into the finance space was just really wanting to know how money worked. My parents, from what I was able to see from them, they both had this hustle mindset where they knew how to make money, but I never really saw them keep or build any wealth. And so I wanted to figure out what that next level was like. And so I chose my career path based on that. So that was my introduction into the personal finance space, really wanting to understand what it would take to build wealth, learn the language, of investing and kind of just bring that information into my own family so that we could stop working so hard and learn to turn the money that we were making into money that would work for us.
Aoifinn Devitt: There’s two really interesting things there. One is your initial career, I suppose, aspiration in cosmetology, because that’s not the first time I’ve heard that. I think it’s a question of, you know, seeing maybe the role models you see when you’re growing up tend to influence what we want to be. And the other area is around the financial literacy point, because it seems like before you got to university, you didn’t really have exposure to those basic skill sets in terms of wealth creation and wealth preservation. Is that fair to say?
Tremaine Wills: Yeah, that’s definitely fair. I think you’re 100% right with what I saw. I knew a lot of people around me who were hairstylists, and I picked up the skill really quickly. And so I was like, okay, this is going to be an easy way for me to make money. My mom helped me brand myself. My first business was called Tame Your Mane Braids by Tremaine. And so it was really catchy. And I was really good at it. It allowed me to be creative with that outlet. But I quickly realized that all of the energy— like, it was manual labor. And sometimes I was standing up and my feet would hurt and my back was hurting. And I was like, oh, I’m too young for this kind of pain. Even though the money was good, but I was like, this isn’t sustainable. I have to learn how to do something different.
Aoifinn Devitt: It’s so interesting, and it’s not very scalable, of course, either because of the manual aspect to it. And then you moved into teaching for a time. Could you talk about what drove that and what you learned as a teacher?
Tremaine Wills: Yes. So, man, that was an interesting period. I spent my first 2 years of my career as a financial specialist, and I was many hours away from home. And I grew up in this very community-centered, social, give-back type environment. And so being so far away from that community, it really hurt me. I felt disconnected. I didn’t feel like I was seen. And just in my job, I was the youngest, probably the only person in the facility under 30. And then I was the only Black person and the only woman with an investment license. And it was just hard. I came from an HBCU where there were so many people who looked like me, and I felt a little bit more comfortable. And then stepping into that environment where I didn’t have the same level of relationships and I just didn’t feel welcomed, it made it very difficult to operate as my best self. So I only stayed for 2 years. And when I came back home, I started thinking like, you know, well, what am I good at? What is going to allow me to feel this impact that I want to feel? And I was like, you know what? I like students. I like young people. I like the idea of mentorship. And so I’m going to be a teacher. And my degree was in business, but I really felt like I wanted something where the classes would matter to young people. And not that business classes don’t matter, but if you understand anything about education, you know that the elective classes don’t really get the same respect. And so I thought I’m going to teach myself enough math to be able to teach high school math and really solidify myself as like a core asset in the school community. And so that’s what I did. I went into the classroom as a high school math teacher. I started in Rocky Mountain, North Carolina, where it wasn’t really one of the best areas. That school had a lot of gang violence. And so as you can imagine, some of the students were a little more tough to reach. So when you add this tough environment to a concept that they don’t really want to learn, right? Nobody is in love with math class. Most people aren’t anyway. And so there was this desire to try to figure out, okay, how do I still reach these students and teach them something that they might necessarily have come to school to learn today? And it taught me how to figure out how to find what is important and reach them there and then add on the information that they need. So for me, I think that was the most important lesson that I needed to learn, because sometimes we know that we should learn about financial literacy and there are things that we should do differently. But if that’s not what I care about in this moment, I’m not going to hear anything you have to say, no matter how important it is. So being able to— and I’m sure there’s more technical behavioral finance terms for this, psychological things, but That’s what I got out of it was identifying like, how do I meet students where they are to be able to give them the information they need in a place where they’re ready to receive it? And so having that training, right? Cause I really feel like it was training ground for me, helped me as I stepped into this advisor position to really understand my clients better, right? To be able to provide a better service.
Aoifinn Devitt: That’s so interesting. And fast forward from there then to launching your own business. Can you talk a little bit about the thought process behind that? And I’m really interested by what you commented on earlier about not feeling perhaps that you belonged or not feeling included in the first place you ended up after university and then setting up your own firm. I’d love to know how much of that— it’s a little bit of a sad reflection on the industry that you didn’t feel included there, but it’d be great to hear your thought process behind launching your own firm.
Tremaine Wills: Yeah, so When I left my initial employer, I came back home and my ultimate mission was to start teaching financial literacy in the community centers, right? I was like, yes, it’s going to be great. I have all this information and I’m just going to teach. So of course I registered the business and I just started making relationships at the community centers, teaching classes, kind of like these evening seminars with like heavy orders and Even though it was free to attend, I was struggling to get people to show up. And I was like, oh wow, this is not what I thought it was gonna be. I thought people would just be excited to kind of learn. And so it was a real reality check. And so I think that initial rejection that there wasn’t just this ready audience, ready to receive the information that I had made me fearful. And so I leaned more into, okay, I’m gonna just focus on being a teacher, and this will be my side hustle thing. I’ll help people with budgets. I’ll help them pay down debt, but I won’t count on this to be my bread and butter. And so as I kept moving through my career in the classroom, it really became clear to me that I was running away from the work, from figuring out how to create my lane in this industry and not allowing my past or just this feeling of inadequacy stopped me from growing a practice where I know my voice is needed. I think so many times I assumed that because I didn’t come from wealth that no one would trust what my opinion, my advice, all the expertise I had from what I’ve acquired over the years. And that really slowed me down until 2019. I got to a place where I was like, you know what? My voice is needed. There’s a reason that I came down this path. There’s a reason I have this collection of experiences, and there is an audience that only I can speak to in the way that they need to be heard. And so I put on my big girl pants and decided it was time to register. And I made a commitment to myself that no matter how tough it was, no matter how challenging it was, there was a reason why I had to do this. And every time I think about giving up and shifting to do something that’s easier, I remember that feeling of being the only one in my first employer. And it was not a safe space for me to be myself. And so I imagine that it is difficult for clients to fully show up as themselves with some advisors if they don’t feel that same safety. Right. So I think that Having advisors who look like you, and even though they might not have the same experiences, that can identify with what you may be experiencing, helps shape the way you receive information. And so I think back to one of the real reasons that I knew it was time to go. I was in a meeting with some of the investment staff, and one of the guys on the team, he used an expletive directed towards me. And I just felt like, why are you okay using that kind of language? And it was not an uplifting environment. And I thought, I can’t do my best and even refer clients to you or build a relationship with you if this is the way that you’re going to treat me, because how are you going to treat the clients I send to you? So it was in that moment I was like, if I really want to be able to create an experience and allow my clients to feel seen, I have to do this. I have to make it a safe space because finance is personal. And if you don’t feel like your advisor truly sees you, will you share everything with them? So for me, it was really stepping out of this fear and pushing myself to a place where I believed that it could be me. I could be the one to help start, create this change and create a space where it’s safe to admit mistakes that have been made and really allow clients the space to grow. And to not feel judged for what they didn’t know.
Aoifinn Devitt: And do you feel that in the financial advisory realm that the Black community is underserved currently, that there’s a lot of, say, scope for you to develop a business there?
Tremaine Wills: Absolutely. And I think that’s for multiple reasons, right? I think our industry tends to gravitate toward ultra-high net worth. There are lots of minimums that many advisors— they won’t see you unless you have a certain threshold. Of assets, and so many of the Black community are not there yet. And so it is a little bit more work, in my opinion, to help clients build and to grow their assets, but I think that it is worth the extra level of work to educate and to help people start the journey so that they know it’s okay to not already have arrived somewhere and still get the help that you need. So I think there’s a huge opportunity for especially younger advisors who want to grow and have these long-lasting relationships. You don’t have to just already chase someone who’s already there, but just finding a community of people who value the work that you do and want to be educated and are willing to put in the work to grow with you.
Aoifinn Devitt: And just moving from there to the financial literacy point more generally, as you’ve worked both in schools and in the community and even through your advisory business providing education that way, Where have you seen some of the biggest gaps in terms of financial literacy? Would it be areas like perhaps the implications of debt, the importance of saving, maybe even how credit cards work in terms of the interest rates that get charged? Is there anywhere where you really feel that you’ve been starting from zero in terms of the education?
Tremaine Wills: To be honest, I think the biggest area of work is actually in financial psychology. The mindset piece of being able to change, I think, holds more people back than the technical work to actually implement the changes. I think a lot of people can Google the steps, right? How do I open a savings account? How much should I set aside? There’s lots of places where you can look up to see what you’re supposed to do, but it is much more challenging to believe in yourself to make the changes. When so much of our programming conditions us to believe differently, right? So I think that’s one of the challenging things as a Black advisor that serves the Black community is that it’s so many layers to dig past before I can even talk about the business of money, right? There’s this shift that has to happen within the mindset of clients that I’m serving and even in myself, right? To believe that it is possible.
Aoifinn Devitt: And it’s so interesting because anything behavioral, I think, almost requires kind of a coaching relationship and a partnership. It’s not a one-off. I think because it is behavioral change you’re seeking to achieve, you need to have regular touch points, check-ins, and really build that relationship over time. Would you say that’s how you approach it?
Tremaine Wills: Absolutely. When I first launched, I was accepting like these one-time project-based contracts, and I quickly realized this is not what I want to do. I want the relationships. I want to be there to support and to grow and to, you know, help build that confidence that it is possible, right? It’s challenging to change, but it’s a requirement of growth. And so I 100% believe that having this allyship with the client to say, hey, we’re on this path together, I’m not going to abandon you. Just reinstills that faith and confidence and belief in themselves that it’s possible to build wealth. You don’t have to already show up with it.
Aoifinn Devitt: And interestingly, on that point, you mentioned that you thought you might not get the respect of your clients or your audience because you hadn’t come from wealth. I think in this industry, I think there’s a lot more credit given to what you know and what you’ve but learned, then sometimes the people who’ve come from wealth know very little about how to manage it. So it’s great that you’ve broken through that. In terms of the financial literacy and the role it plays in improving the wealth gap, and leading to better financial outcomes. Have you seen that? And how early does the literacy have to start? Does it need to start at high school or do you think it’s never too late to start to make changes?
Tremaine Wills: So I do think that it’s never too late to start, but it is more challenging to change, right? Because we have to unlearn behaviors that we’ve had as a part of us for years and years and years, depending how old you are. But I do think that if we introduce these concepts to our youth at younger ages, they start to keep it as a part of who they are and understand things much earlier. I’ve been asked a lot, you know, well, when should I allow my child to have a credit card or helping them get started with Roth IRAs or figuring out should I pay them an allowance? So there’s all different ways to introduce these topics or concepts to our youth. But I will say that even if you didn’t start when they were 8, 9, 10, right, that doesn’t mean you don’t start because they’re maybe teenagers, or even if you’re already on your own and you haven’t had a chance to go down this road, it’s never too late to begin. You just have to have the desire to learn and to give yourself grace to unlearn the things that are not conducive to building wealth.
Aoifinn Devitt: And let’s go back now to the youth of today and the role models that they’re seeing. In the industry. What would you say about the current level of diversity in the investment industry, whether in the advisory space or elsewhere?
Tremaine Wills: So I think the industry as a whole, when I think about the investment space, insurance as a whole, I do see that it is changing. It is becoming more diverse, especially now that I’ve been able to make more relationships and connections myself. I get excited. Because there are more women and people of color. I was not exposed to that at a high level when I was introduced, and so it felt really lonely. But the more I’ve been immersing myself and intentionally looking for people who look like me and women, it’s been clear that, oh wow, there are amazing women and people of color in this space who want to invite others in. So I think that we are on the right path. I don’t think that we accurately represent the mix of the population, but I do believe that we are moving towards it, and it is being received well.
Aoifinn Devitt: I agree, and it’s certainly— improvements are being made. And this is, of course, the purpose of this whole podcast series, is to showcase inspiring role models on the basis that you can’t be what you can’t see. But I do think we have a long way to go, and the work you’re doing is certainly making huge inroads in that. So thank you for that. Let’s go back to some personal reflections now. So you have started your own business, and there was a lot of very clear decision-making going into that. Were there any setbacks or challenges that you’ve experienced so far that you’ve learned from?
Tremaine Wills: Oh my goodness, I feel like every day is a setback or challenge, right? But the biggest thing probably has been just mindset. I had a lot of mistrust very early in this space. As I mentioned, you know, I didn’t feel safe around some of the partners when I initially came into this space. And so I know that played a role in me not finding the community I needed in the beginning. So when I did step back in and decided to launch the RIA, I struggled because I didn’t know what I didn’t know, and I also didn’t trust many people to ask questions. Once I finally pushed past that and saw that the community was not all bad, it made it easier to ask questions and to find alignment with people who had the same values as I did. And so that made it a lot easier to build, but the lack of trust For me, it shut out so many resources in the beginning because I just didn’t believe that there were a lot of great advisors in the space. It felt very much like I was kind of reliving what I was experiencing when I first stepped into the industry, where nobody wants to help me, right? And that’s, that’s what I felt until I challenged that thought. Is it that nobody wants to help me, or is it that I just don’t know where those people exist? Right? And I think that is the case for so many others, and not even just in this industry. It’s something we allow our experiences to shape our perspective. And if we don’t push back on some of those false narratives, it can really deter us from being able to move forward. So that was probably the biggest thing that I had to overcome, was identifying where the mistrust was coming from and then allowing myself the space to change and shift that narrative.
Aoifinn Devitt: And there have been some pleasant surprises too, though, haven’t there, in terms of inbound inquiries?
Tremaine Wills: I am a solo practice right now. It will not be like that for the rest of the year, but I felt like I was doing all the things and I wasn’t seeing the results as quickly. And I had to remember that I’d only been in business 18 months, so of course it wasn’t going to be like an explosion. Now I have 100 clients.. But at the top of the year, I’d seen a huge increase of just people booking discovery calls and ones that are in alignment, which is what made me even more excited. Because I think that sometimes we can attract the traffic, but what excited me the most is that these are the type of individuals that I wanted to work with. And I’m like, oh wow, okay. The work, the effort that I’m putting in now, I’m starting to see those compounding results, just like our investments. You keep doing the things and the activities you’re supposed to do and the results will come. And so it was such a breath of fresh air to see it and to feel like that hard work pay off. And all the more because this is my brand, this is my business. So it felt really good.
Aoifinn Devitt: Yeah, that certainly was a cheerful tweet for me to read in January. So delighted to hear that. Moving just now to some of your personal story again, were there any key people throughout your story that you would like to mention that maybe had an impression on you in terms of setting direction or providing advice?
Tremaine Wills: There’s so many. And first of all, I love Twitter. Twitter has made the personal finance space so small and just being able to help me get those relationships. I was fortunate to participate in one of the programs through Carson Group. And so Sarah Cain, oh my goodness, she was amazing. Just connecting me to other professionals in the space and really expanding this community. Jamie Hopkins too from Carson Group. But just having the opportunity to see that I wasn’t alone and to have the community build was phenomenal. There’s another advisor, Aisha Seldon, who I think she’s in Cali now. Watching her as a Black woman CFP who is crushing it is so inspiring. She has a similar story to me. And so I didn’t know who she was until maybe like a year and a half ago. And so I think about her and I think, okay, wow, ultimately I want to be that type of story for someone else because I can imagine she’s a couple years ahead of me. What it was like for her to step into this space and not have anyone to see that was like her. And now I actually have someone I can follow and model, so I’m so grateful for her and just her visibility and transparency.
Aoifinn Devitt: Role models are so important. And when you think about now your own approach, given how you have moved through different areas of finance, is there any creed or motto that you bring to everything that you do or maybe any advice that you wish you had known sooner?
Tremaine Wills: So I do have my personal mission statement, which is to leave the world empty of every resource and talent that God has granted me. And so I really am just pushing to give all that I have while I can, right? I don’t want to leave with any regrets. But I don’t know that there’s any advice that I didn’t have. I think it’s just advice that I wish I would have listened to. Is to ask for help. Especially in the Black community, sometimes we make it— we feel like asking for help makes us weak. And the truth is there are people who want to help you if you are willing to say, hey, I need help, and to raise your hand. And so just giving yourself the space to be vulnerable and say, hey, I need this thing, and allowing people to say, I am more than happy to help you. And understanding it’s okay because you would do the same for someone else. So that, for me, I wish I would have leaned into that earlier and stopped trying to do everything myself. Because, you know, we are social people. We are built around community and just leaning into that instead of feeling like I had to do everything alone.
Aoifinn Devitt: Well, thank you so much, Tremaine. It’s been such a pleasure to listen to you and to listen to how you have translated your strong community grounding into a dynamic financial advisory business. It is great to see you act as a role model and to see you continue to really nurture and fan the flames of financial literacy everywhere you turn. So thank you for coming here and for sharing your wisdom with us.
Tremaine Wills: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Aoifinn Devitt: I’m Aoifinn Devitt. Thank you for listening to the 50 Faces Podcast. If you liked what you heard and would like to tune in to hear more inspiring investors and their personal journeys, Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as investment advice, and all views are personal and should not be attributed to the organizations and affiliations of the host or any guest.
Aoifinn Devitt: This podcast is brought to you by the kind support of the Active Share Podcast. What does a two-time world-winning coach and MLB baseball team owner, top chef, and luxury fashion designer have in common? They’ve all been featured on the Active Share Podcast. If you’re seeking the less obvious and are curious about the ever-changing world and how it affects investing, the Active Share Podcast is for you. Hear thought-provoking conversations with thought leaders, company executives, and William Blair Investment Management’s own analysts and portfolio managers as they share unique perspectives on investing in a world that’s always evolving. Download the Active Share podcast on iTunes, Spotify, Google, Stitcher, and TuneIn.
Tremaine Wills: I made a commitment to myself that no matter how tough it was, no matter how challenging it was, there was a reason why I had to do this. And every time I think about giving up and shifting to do something that’s easier, I remember that feeling of being the only one in my first employer, and it was not a safe space for me to be myself. And so I imagined that It is difficult for clients to fully show up as themselves with some advisors if they don’t feel that same safety, right? So I think that having advisors who look like you, and even though they might not have the same experiences, that can identify with what you may be experiencing, helps shape the way you receive information.
Aoifinn Devitt: I’m Aoifinn Devitt, and welcome to the 50 Faces Podcast, a podcast committed to revealing the richness and diversity of the world of investment by focusing on its people and their stories. I’m joined today by Tremaine Wills, who’s the founder and chief operating officer of Mind Over Money, which provides financial planning advice and manages investment portfolios to to help clients meet their financial goals. She formerly spent time as an investment advisor representative, and from 2015 to 2019, worked as a math teacher, initially for Teach for America. Based in Virginia, she is passionate about increasing financial literacy for the Black community in particular. Welcome, Tremaine. Thanks for joining me today.
Tremaine Wills: Thank you so much for having me.
Aoifinn Devitt: Well, let’s start with where you grew up, what you studied, and how you came to enter the world of giving investment advice.
Tremaine Wills: Oh man, so I am from Newport News, Virginia, an area in southern Hampton Roads. If you’re familiar with the Virginia Beach area, it’s a city in that vicinity. I grew up in a single-parent household. Neither of my parents went to college, and so education was something that was incredibly important and kind of instilled in us. So I pushed myself really hard in education. I went through the International Baccalaureate program and I was in advanced classes, like, as long as I can remember. But after I finished that program and got the IB diploma, I went to Hampton University on a full scholarship. And I had no idea what I was doing. There were not role models to kind of say, hey, choose this major, or for me to kind of see what path to take Honestly, before I got to college, that whole senior year, I thought I was going to go into, like, cosmetology because one of the first things I learned how to do to make money was to braid hair. And so that’s kind of the path that I saw for myself. But once it became real that I could possibly go to college and my parents wouldn’t have to pay for it, I was like, oh, wow, there is a different path that I’m about to take that I didn’t really see happening for me. And so I went to Hampton. My major was undeclared. I didn’t know what I was going to do. So I asked some people, I was like, hey, what’s the major that people get into to make money? Because that’s really all I knew is that I needed to go to school and I needed to graduate and I had to make money. And everyone said business. So that’s the major I went into. I went into the MBA program at Hampton. There’s a 5-year accelerated program. So that’s what I went into to kind of study and learn what business was all about. And so I quickly realized that this was definitely a space that I wanted to learn and really understand what drove companies and just understanding like the inner workings. And so when I graduated, our program had a really excellent placement rate. We have something like a 99% graduation placement rate. And so I had like 6 offers. And one of the things that really pushed me into the finance space was just really wanting to know how money worked. My parents, from what I was able to see from them, they both had this hustle mindset where they knew how to make money, but I never really saw them keep or build any wealth. And so I wanted to figure out what that next level was like. And so I chose my career path based on that. So that was my introduction into the personal finance space, really wanting to understand what it would take to build wealth, learn the language, of investing and kind of just bring that information into my own family so that we could stop working so hard and learn to turn the money that we were making into money that would work for us.
Aoifinn Devitt: There’s two really interesting things there. One is your initial career, I suppose, aspiration in cosmetology, because that’s not the first time I’ve heard that. I think it’s a question of, you know, seeing maybe the role models you see when you’re growing up tend to influence what we want to be. And the other area is around the financial literacy point, because it seems like before you got to university, you didn’t really have exposure to those basic skill sets in terms of wealth creation and wealth preservation. Is that fair to say?
Tremaine Wills: Yeah, that’s definitely fair. I think you’re 100% right with what I saw. I knew a lot of people around me who were hairstylists, and I picked up the skill really quickly. And so I was like, okay, this is going to be an easy way for me to make money. My mom helped me brand myself. My first business was called Tame Your Mane Braids by Tremaine. And so it was really catchy. And I was really good at it. It allowed me to be creative with that outlet. But I quickly realized that all of the energy— like, it was manual labor. And sometimes I was standing up and my feet would hurt and my back was hurting. And I was like, oh, I’m too young for this kind of pain. Even though the money was good, but I was like, this isn’t sustainable. I have to learn how to do something different.
Aoifinn Devitt: It’s so interesting, and it’s not very scalable, of course, either because of the manual aspect to it. And then you moved into teaching for a time. Could you talk about what drove that and what you learned as a teacher?
Tremaine Wills: Yes. So, man, that was an interesting period. I spent my first 2 years of my career as a financial specialist, and I was many hours away from home. And I grew up in this very community-centered, social, give-back type environment. And so being so far away from that community, it really hurt me. I felt disconnected. I didn’t feel like I was seen. And just in my job, I was the youngest, probably the only person in the facility under 30. And then I was the only Black person and the only woman with an investment license. And it was just hard. I came from an HBCU where there were so many people who looked like me, and I felt a little bit more comfortable. And then stepping into that environment where I didn’t have the same level of relationships and I just didn’t feel welcomed, it made it very difficult to operate as my best self. So I only stayed for 2 years. And when I came back home, I started thinking like, you know, well, what am I good at? What is going to allow me to feel this impact that I want to feel? And I was like, you know what? I like students. I like young people. I like the idea of mentorship. And so I’m going to be a teacher. And my degree was in business, but I really felt like I wanted something where the classes would matter to young people. And not that business classes don’t matter, but if you understand anything about education, you know that the elective classes don’t really get the same respect. And so I thought I’m going to teach myself enough math to be able to teach high school math and really solidify myself as like a core asset in the school community. And so that’s what I did. I went into the classroom as a high school math teacher. I started in Rocky Mountain, North Carolina, where it wasn’t really one of the best areas. That school had a lot of gang violence. And so as you can imagine, some of the students were a little more tough to reach. So when you add this tough environment to a concept that they don’t really want to learn, right? Nobody is in love with math class. Most people aren’t anyway. And so there was this desire to try to figure out, okay, how do I still reach these students and teach them something that they might necessarily have come to school to learn today? And it taught me how to figure out how to find what is important and reach them there and then add on the information that they need. So for me, I think that was the most important lesson that I needed to learn, because sometimes we know that we should learn about financial literacy and there are things that we should do differently. But if that’s not what I care about in this moment, I’m not going to hear anything you have to say, no matter how important it is. So being able to— and I’m sure there’s more technical behavioral finance terms for this, psychological things, but That’s what I got out of it was identifying like, how do I meet students where they are to be able to give them the information they need in a place where they’re ready to receive it? And so having that training, right? Cause I really feel like it was training ground for me, helped me as I stepped into this advisor position to really understand my clients better, right? To be able to provide a better service.
Aoifinn Devitt: That’s so interesting. And fast forward from there then to launching your own business. Can you talk a little bit about the thought process behind that? And I’m really interested by what you commented on earlier about not feeling perhaps that you belonged or not feeling included in the first place you ended up after university and then setting up your own firm. I’d love to know how much of that— it’s a little bit of a sad reflection on the industry that you didn’t feel included there, but it’d be great to hear your thought process behind launching your own firm.
Tremaine Wills: Yeah, so When I left my initial employer, I came back home and my ultimate mission was to start teaching financial literacy in the community centers, right? I was like, yes, it’s going to be great. I have all this information and I’m just going to teach. So of course I registered the business and I just started making relationships at the community centers, teaching classes, kind of like these evening seminars with like heavy orders and Even though it was free to attend, I was struggling to get people to show up. And I was like, oh wow, this is not what I thought it was gonna be. I thought people would just be excited to kind of learn. And so it was a real reality check. And so I think that initial rejection that there wasn’t just this ready audience, ready to receive the information that I had made me fearful. And so I leaned more into, okay, I’m gonna just focus on being a teacher, and this will be my side hustle thing. I’ll help people with budgets. I’ll help them pay down debt, but I won’t count on this to be my bread and butter. And so as I kept moving through my career in the classroom, it really became clear to me that I was running away from the work, from figuring out how to create my lane in this industry and not allowing my past or just this feeling of inadequacy stopped me from growing a practice where I know my voice is needed. I think so many times I assumed that because I didn’t come from wealth that no one would trust what my opinion, my advice, all the expertise I had from what I’ve acquired over the years. And that really slowed me down until 2019. I got to a place where I was like, you know what? My voice is needed. There’s a reason that I came down this path. There’s a reason I have this collection of experiences, and there is an audience that only I can speak to in the way that they need to be heard. And so I put on my big girl pants and decided it was time to register. And I made a commitment to myself that no matter how tough it was, no matter how challenging it was, there was a reason why I had to do this. And every time I think about giving up and shifting to do something that’s easier, I remember that feeling of being the only one in my first employer. And it was not a safe space for me to be myself. And so I imagine that it is difficult for clients to fully show up as themselves with some advisors if they don’t feel that same safety. Right. So I think that Having advisors who look like you, and even though they might not have the same experiences, that can identify with what you may be experiencing, helps shape the way you receive information. And so I think back to one of the real reasons that I knew it was time to go. I was in a meeting with some of the investment staff, and one of the guys on the team, he used an expletive directed towards me. And I just felt like, why are you okay using that kind of language? And it was not an uplifting environment. And I thought, I can’t do my best and even refer clients to you or build a relationship with you if this is the way that you’re going to treat me, because how are you going to treat the clients I send to you? So it was in that moment I was like, if I really want to be able to create an experience and allow my clients to feel seen, I have to do this. I have to make it a safe space because finance is personal. And if you don’t feel like your advisor truly sees you, will you share everything with them? So for me, it was really stepping out of this fear and pushing myself to a place where I believed that it could be me. I could be the one to help start, create this change and create a space where it’s safe to admit mistakes that have been made and really allow clients the space to grow. And to not feel judged for what they didn’t know.
Aoifinn Devitt: And do you feel that in the financial advisory realm that the Black community is underserved currently, that there’s a lot of, say, scope for you to develop a business there?
Tremaine Wills: Absolutely. And I think that’s for multiple reasons, right? I think our industry tends to gravitate toward ultra-high net worth. There are lots of minimums that many advisors— they won’t see you unless you have a certain threshold. Of assets, and so many of the Black community are not there yet. And so it is a little bit more work, in my opinion, to help clients build and to grow their assets, but I think that it is worth the extra level of work to educate and to help people start the journey so that they know it’s okay to not already have arrived somewhere and still get the help that you need. So I think there’s a huge opportunity for especially younger advisors who want to grow and have these long-lasting relationships. You don’t have to just already chase someone who’s already there, but just finding a community of people who value the work that you do and want to be educated and are willing to put in the work to grow with you.
Aoifinn Devitt: And just moving from there to the financial literacy point more generally, as you’ve worked both in schools and in the community and even through your advisory business providing education that way, Where have you seen some of the biggest gaps in terms of financial literacy? Would it be areas like perhaps the implications of debt, the importance of saving, maybe even how credit cards work in terms of the interest rates that get charged? Is there anywhere where you really feel that you’ve been starting from zero in terms of the education?
Tremaine Wills: To be honest, I think the biggest area of work is actually in financial psychology. The mindset piece of being able to change, I think, holds more people back than the technical work to actually implement the changes. I think a lot of people can Google the steps, right? How do I open a savings account? How much should I set aside? There’s lots of places where you can look up to see what you’re supposed to do, but it is much more challenging to believe in yourself to make the changes. When so much of our programming conditions us to believe differently, right? So I think that’s one of the challenging things as a Black advisor that serves the Black community is that it’s so many layers to dig past before I can even talk about the business of money, right? There’s this shift that has to happen within the mindset of clients that I’m serving and even in myself, right? To believe that it is possible.
Aoifinn Devitt: And it’s so interesting because anything behavioral, I think, almost requires kind of a coaching relationship and a partnership. It’s not a one-off. I think because it is behavioral change you’re seeking to achieve, you need to have regular touch points, check-ins, and really build that relationship over time. Would you say that’s how you approach it?
Tremaine Wills: Absolutely. When I first launched, I was accepting like these one-time project-based contracts, and I quickly realized this is not what I want to do. I want the relationships. I want to be there to support and to grow and to, you know, help build that confidence that it is possible, right? It’s challenging to change, but it’s a requirement of growth. And so I 100% believe that having this allyship with the client to say, hey, we’re on this path together, I’m not going to abandon you. Just reinstills that faith and confidence and belief in themselves that it’s possible to build wealth. You don’t have to already show up with it.
Aoifinn Devitt: And interestingly, on that point, you mentioned that you thought you might not get the respect of your clients or your audience because you hadn’t come from wealth. I think in this industry, I think there’s a lot more credit given to what you know and what you’ve but learned, then sometimes the people who’ve come from wealth know very little about how to manage it. So it’s great that you’ve broken through that. In terms of the financial literacy and the role it plays in improving the wealth gap, and leading to better financial outcomes. Have you seen that? And how early does the literacy have to start? Does it need to start at high school or do you think it’s never too late to start to make changes?
Tremaine Wills: So I do think that it’s never too late to start, but it is more challenging to change, right? Because we have to unlearn behaviors that we’ve had as a part of us for years and years and years, depending how old you are. But I do think that if we introduce these concepts to our youth at younger ages, they start to keep it as a part of who they are and understand things much earlier. I’ve been asked a lot, you know, well, when should I allow my child to have a credit card or helping them get started with Roth IRAs or figuring out should I pay them an allowance? So there’s all different ways to introduce these topics or concepts to our youth. But I will say that even if you didn’t start when they were 8, 9, 10, right, that doesn’t mean you don’t start because they’re maybe teenagers, or even if you’re already on your own and you haven’t had a chance to go down this road, it’s never too late to begin. You just have to have the desire to learn and to give yourself grace to unlearn the things that are not conducive to building wealth.
Aoifinn Devitt: And let’s go back now to the youth of today and the role models that they’re seeing. In the industry. What would you say about the current level of diversity in the investment industry, whether in the advisory space or elsewhere?
Tremaine Wills: So I think the industry as a whole, when I think about the investment space, insurance as a whole, I do see that it is changing. It is becoming more diverse, especially now that I’ve been able to make more relationships and connections myself. I get excited. Because there are more women and people of color. I was not exposed to that at a high level when I was introduced, and so it felt really lonely. But the more I’ve been immersing myself and intentionally looking for people who look like me and women, it’s been clear that, oh wow, there are amazing women and people of color in this space who want to invite others in. So I think that we are on the right path. I don’t think that we accurately represent the mix of the population, but I do believe that we are moving towards it, and it is being received well.
Aoifinn Devitt: I agree, and it’s certainly— improvements are being made. And this is, of course, the purpose of this whole podcast series, is to showcase inspiring role models on the basis that you can’t be what you can’t see. But I do think we have a long way to go, and the work you’re doing is certainly making huge inroads in that. So thank you for that. Let’s go back to some personal reflections now. So you have started your own business, and there was a lot of very clear decision-making going into that. Were there any setbacks or challenges that you’ve experienced so far that you’ve learned from?
Tremaine Wills: Oh my goodness, I feel like every day is a setback or challenge, right? But the biggest thing probably has been just mindset. I had a lot of mistrust very early in this space. As I mentioned, you know, I didn’t feel safe around some of the partners when I initially came into this space. And so I know that played a role in me not finding the community I needed in the beginning. So when I did step back in and decided to launch the RIA, I struggled because I didn’t know what I didn’t know, and I also didn’t trust many people to ask questions. Once I finally pushed past that and saw that the community was not all bad, it made it easier to ask questions and to find alignment with people who had the same values as I did. And so that made it a lot easier to build, but the lack of trust For me, it shut out so many resources in the beginning because I just didn’t believe that there were a lot of great advisors in the space. It felt very much like I was kind of reliving what I was experiencing when I first stepped into the industry, where nobody wants to help me, right? And that’s, that’s what I felt until I challenged that thought. Is it that nobody wants to help me, or is it that I just don’t know where those people exist? Right? And I think that is the case for so many others, and not even just in this industry. It’s something we allow our experiences to shape our perspective. And if we don’t push back on some of those false narratives, it can really deter us from being able to move forward. So that was probably the biggest thing that I had to overcome, was identifying where the mistrust was coming from and then allowing myself the space to change and shift that narrative.
Aoifinn Devitt: And there have been some pleasant surprises too, though, haven’t there, in terms of inbound inquiries?
Tremaine Wills: I am a solo practice right now. It will not be like that for the rest of the year, but I felt like I was doing all the things and I wasn’t seeing the results as quickly. And I had to remember that I’d only been in business 18 months, so of course it wasn’t going to be like an explosion. Now I have 100 clients.. But at the top of the year, I’d seen a huge increase of just people booking discovery calls and ones that are in alignment, which is what made me even more excited. Because I think that sometimes we can attract the traffic, but what excited me the most is that these are the type of individuals that I wanted to work with. And I’m like, oh wow, okay. The work, the effort that I’m putting in now, I’m starting to see those compounding results, just like our investments. You keep doing the things and the activities you’re supposed to do and the results will come. And so it was such a breath of fresh air to see it and to feel like that hard work pay off. And all the more because this is my brand, this is my business. So it felt really good.
Aoifinn Devitt: Yeah, that certainly was a cheerful tweet for me to read in January. So delighted to hear that. Moving just now to some of your personal story again, were there any key people throughout your story that you would like to mention that maybe had an impression on you in terms of setting direction or providing advice?
Tremaine Wills: There’s so many. And first of all, I love Twitter. Twitter has made the personal finance space so small and just being able to help me get those relationships. I was fortunate to participate in one of the programs through Carson Group. And so Sarah Cain, oh my goodness, she was amazing. Just connecting me to other professionals in the space and really expanding this community. Jamie Hopkins too from Carson Group. But just having the opportunity to see that I wasn’t alone and to have the community build was phenomenal. There’s another advisor, Aisha Seldon, who I think she’s in Cali now. Watching her as a Black woman CFP who is crushing it is so inspiring. She has a similar story to me. And so I didn’t know who she was until maybe like a year and a half ago. And so I think about her and I think, okay, wow, ultimately I want to be that type of story for someone else because I can imagine she’s a couple years ahead of me. What it was like for her to step into this space and not have anyone to see that was like her. And now I actually have someone I can follow and model, so I’m so grateful for her and just her visibility and transparency.
Aoifinn Devitt: Role models are so important. And when you think about now your own approach, given how you have moved through different areas of finance, is there any creed or motto that you bring to everything that you do or maybe any advice that you wish you had known sooner?
Tremaine Wills: So I do have my personal mission statement, which is to leave the world empty of every resource and talent that God has granted me. And so I really am just pushing to give all that I have while I can, right? I don’t want to leave with any regrets. But I don’t know that there’s any advice that I didn’t have. I think it’s just advice that I wish I would have listened to. Is to ask for help. Especially in the Black community, sometimes we make it— we feel like asking for help makes us weak. And the truth is there are people who want to help you if you are willing to say, hey, I need help, and to raise your hand. And so just giving yourself the space to be vulnerable and say, hey, I need this thing, and allowing people to say, I am more than happy to help you. And understanding it’s okay because you would do the same for someone else. So that, for me, I wish I would have leaned into that earlier and stopped trying to do everything myself. Because, you know, we are social people. We are built around community and just leaning into that instead of feeling like I had to do everything alone.
Aoifinn Devitt: Well, thank you so much, Tremaine. It’s been such a pleasure to listen to you and to listen to how you have translated your strong community grounding into a dynamic financial advisory business. It is great to see you act as a role model and to see you continue to really nurture and fan the flames of financial literacy everywhere you turn. So thank you for coming here and for sharing your wisdom with us.
Tremaine Wills: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Aoifinn Devitt: I’m Aoifinn Devitt. Thank you for listening to the 50 Faces Podcast. If you liked what you heard and would like to tune in to hear more inspiring investors and their personal journeys, Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as investment advice, and all views are personal and should not be attributed to the organizations and affiliations of the host or any guest.
